nested precedence doesn't displace?

General questions about Indigo, the scene format, rendering etc...
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Heavily Tessellated
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nested precedence doesn't displace?

Post by Heavily Tessellated » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:28 am

I've tried all sorts of precedence stacking, and this way comes out closest to real world. Normals are correct, model is entirely "Indigo compliant". (new term?)

Outer cylinder precedence is set to 1, water set to 2 and is extended into the glass just barely per nik's instructions. This works. The inner bulbs are set to 1 as they are should be displacing the same water and should take precedence, and the fluids inside them are set to 3. Because 2 made them black and have no surface reflections, although technically since they're still inside the water too that should have worked AFAIK just with no highlights. Oh well. But - look closely at the fluid inside the bulbs, you can clearly see the edges scaled in between the glass walls, which shouldn't happen as that's what precedence is all about. I thought perhaps I scaled the fluids too large, past the .2-1mm boundary, but no, I got the camera inside the bulb and scaled the fluid until it -just- disappeared under the inside surface. And, rendering the bulbs without the water and glass column in the scene, the displacement happens as expected. So - why did the glass bulbs did not displace the internal fluids? Does nesting displacements with precedence not work?

Another nasty (annoyance, really) is that colors don't work at the same level. Red is 50, but trying to get each of the other colored fluids to match in color density requires tweaking each one individually. Yellow is 75 and green is 10. Orange is nearly brown at the same gain as red. Blue is the worst, at 1 it's nearly clear, 10, it's slightly blue, but 25 and it comes out purple?? Also, you'll notice the colors inside the glass are blown out completely.

It's much better than my last version, but I started typing up a document for wiki on precedence and the damn thing didn't behave! :-)

edit: forgot an attachment
Attachments
in free air it displaces properly.jpg
in free air it displaces properly.jpg (76.45 KiB) Viewed 2865 times
close-up of one bulb.jpg
close-up of one bulb.jpg (73.87 KiB) Viewed 2869 times
what I want it to look like.jpg
what I want it to look like.jpg (52.63 KiB) Viewed 2873 times
gal thermo.jpg
gal thermo.jpg (108.38 KiB) Viewed 2873 times

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OnoSendai
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Post by OnoSendai » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:52 am

Your precedences are all wrong.
try this:
Outer cylinder glass: 2
main water: 1
droplet glass: 12
droplet air bubble: 10
droplet liquid: 11

zuegs
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Post by zuegs » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:53 am

realy fantastic NICE :!: :shock: :D

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Heavily Tessellated
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Post by Heavily Tessellated » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:49 am

OnoSendai wrote:Your precedences are all wrong.
try this:
Outer cylinder glass: 2
main water: 1
droplet glass: 12
droplet air bubble: 10
droplet liquid: 11
Great, there's my new sig.

Firing one off as the above. If this works, I guess I need more instruction re: precedence and displacement than what the WIP manual contains. So much for volunteering to document something you know nothing about. :oops:



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OnoSendai: Your precedences are all wrong.

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DaveC
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Post by DaveC » Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:03 am

Heavily Tessellated:
The precedence system is this. If a medium has a higher precedence than one occupying the same 3D space, that is the one that gets rendered.

So if water has precedence 10 and glass has 11, glass wins. water gets over-ridden. That's why the atmosphere has precedence of 1. so that everything else over-rides it.
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PhilBo
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Post by PhilBo » Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:19 am

ARGHHHHHHH!!!!!!! You stole my thunder! I've been working on a Galileo thermometer and was thinking...."You know what I have never seen anyone do, is a Galileo thermometer." My Blender renders never looked good enough and my Yafray renders always had issues as well. My Indigo work has been decent but have had normal issues that is keeping me from posting it.

Yours is looking nice. I can't wait to see it after you update the precedence settings.

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manitwo
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Post by manitwo » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:06 am

Heavily Tessellated wrote:
OnoSendai wrote:Your precedences are all wrong.
Great, there's my new sig.

-----------
OnoSendai: Your precedences are all wrong.
LOL! :lol: :D

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Heavily Tessellated
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Post by Heavily Tessellated » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:08 am

PhilBo wrote:ARGHHHHHHH!!!!!!! You stole my thunder!
:lol: sorry, go back a month or so. I've been working on making it Indigo-compatible for a while. First it was me and glass and autosmoothing normals, and I thought I had a handle on precedence, but it keeps tripping me up.

Update update: working fine. Skip to EDIT.

Update: Well, damnit. It doesn't work. Let me take a screencap of the blender screen so I can demonstrate the overlap, and the precedence settings. The air overrides the fluid, so you cannot see the top surface of the fluid as red, only as a transparent reflection. Thinking OK, reverse the precedences - make air 11 and the fluid 10... but the result is the same??

Gah, I'm a linux geek, things with LOWER numbers are supposed to have priority or take precedence. I'll do my best to remember (or at least search for my own previously answered threads before posting!)

But anyway, it didn't work. Suggestions? Change precedence, modeling overlap, something else? And I asked this before, why do I need the air void if the glass bulb thingie is already hollow? That's just because it still resides inside a solid object, the water column?

EDIT: Nevermind. My mistake. Err, Blendigo's actually. It didn't pick up IoR 1.000 from the air material but picked 1.775 for some reason. That's why you can't see the surface. Blah.
Attachments
indigo prededence layering.jpg
indigo prededence layering.jpg (35.29 KiB) Viewed 2783 times
Last edited by Heavily Tessellated on Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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zsouthboy
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Post by zsouthboy » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:36 am

You need to put "air" INSIDE the glass, too.

The material that is currently in there according to your diagram is whatever the glass is displacing (it's complicated because you're in another medium)

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Post by DaveC » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:58 am

I am currently trying it out and it appears to be working. Will post results for you soon.
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DaveC
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Post by DaveC » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:46 am

Make the glass ball precedence ten. make sure to check all of your normals.

Make the liquid inside the ball precedence 8

make the air (over lapping glass and water) precedence 7

make sure to check all normals on liquid and air point outwards.

Drop the whole thing, glass, water and air, in another liquid. Give THAT liquid precedence 6

Put that liquid in a glass cylinder made from the original glass.

Don't forget those normals ;)

Make sure all mediums are closed volumes and the glass ball and glass cylinder have solid walls with thickness.

and now it should work thusly...
Attachments
glassballs2.jpg
close up
glassballs2.jpg (392.23 KiB) Viewed 2718 times
glassballs1.jpg
three stages
glassballs1.jpg (298.33 KiB) Viewed 2717 times
The hardest part of BEING yourself is FINDING yourself in the first place...
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Heavily Tessellated
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Post by Heavily Tessellated » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:03 pm

Heavily Tessellated wrote:Update update: working fine. Skip to EDIT.
Yea got it. The way nik outlined it works fine, once I fixed the IoR of the air. Thanks for the renders, though. It's lookin good now. The colors change with more material the light has to pass through? Cool. Frustrating trying to eyeball an exact color & density, though. The yellow went lime green and the orange was already going brown, now it's full-on brown, and blue is still purple... heh. damnit. :P
Attachments
gal thermo v3.jpg
gal thermo v3.jpg (35.17 KiB) Viewed 2665 times

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