What going to happen to us?

General questions about Indigo, the scene format, rendering etc...
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Stinkie
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by Stinkie » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:51 am

WytRaven wrote:To those bitching:

Why this is a great deal. Ono has put a lot of work into this product which up until now you have enjoyed for free (maybe some of you bothered to donate but I doubt it). That was a good deal. Ono has decided that the SDK concept wasn't putting food on his table and realises, with the assistance of one Ben Nolan, "I have a product that is worth being paid for" and so puts up a price. The price is high, but not high compared to other commercial offerings in the same business space. Ono offers you, the previous free loader, a half price LIFETIME LICENSE, yes pay once and then it's back to being free again as far as you are concerned. He does this out of respect and thanks for the existing contributing members of the indigo family.

What part of the above seems wrong to you people? Great person gets paid for years of work and you get the ultimate software pricing deal. Everybody wins.

So get that credit card out and warm it up and don't forget to smile as you hit the order button 'cause you just scored a hell of a deal.

Otherwise bugger off to Lux-land and take Radiance and his henchman with you. I for one am sick to death of hearing about what Ono owes you. Ono owes YOU nothing, you owe Ono plenty.

The above statement is entirely my opinion and cannot be taken as the opinion of Glare Technologies or their affiliates. Haha couldn't resist :D

I sincerely hope that no one, other than Radiance and Big Fan, take offence to the way in which this post is worded. My only hope is to be a catalyst for attitude adjustment as that is all that is required.

*waits for Ben's PM asking me to refrain from aggressive posting on forums...again* ;)

Quoted in full for agreement. I cannot believe the amount of egocentric whining in this thread. So the man wants to put food on the table - ain't nothing wrong with that.

Also, what's to stop any of us using one of the older versions of Indigo? They aren't rendered useless by the release of a commercial version, are they?

neepneep
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by neepneep » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:50 am

I think that me getting a license would be highly dependent on whether or not the Blender exporter continues to be supported and developed into the future ... is there any word on whether this can be assured?

What I dont get are people like BF that have this commie sense of entitlement. I just shake my head and shrug my shoulders :|

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carbon
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by carbon » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:12 am

Stinkie wrote:So the man wants to put food on the table - ain't nothing wrong with that.
yes, indeed, there is nothing wrong with it, hard work deserves honorarium, on the other hand i think, indigo is not yet mature enough to be released in this way and for this money, not the core of course, but everything that supports it is not quite prepared.. this unavoidable turn, as many people already forefelt, will force a lot of users to stop using it, it will lost publicity and popularity - without it, it will be pig in a poke for everyone new.

just too early i think..

c.

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oodmb
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by oodmb » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:41 am

I fully support Ono's right to make money off of his hard work.
I do not necessarily think that this is the optimal way to do it, but not really my decision to make.

Every person should have the right to make money doing what they enjoy/are best at. If you do what you enjoy, the amount of money earned should be inconsequential. However, if that amount of money isn't enough to live on, it becomes consequential. If this is the only way for Ono to do what he enjoys, and make enough money to live on... But if another way can be found, please do it (considering this business plan doesn't seem the most optimal anyway)

Ono- If I ever get any of my algorithms published, you're welcome to have a copy of the source... ...for a price.
a shiny monkey is a happy monkey

Stinkie
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by Stinkie » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:50 am

carbon wrote:
Stinkie wrote:So the man wants to put food on the table - ain't nothing wrong with that.
yes, indeed, there is nothing wrong with it, hard work deserves honorarium, on the other hand i think, indigo is not yet mature enough to be released in this way and for this money, not the core of course, but everything that supports it is not quite prepared.. this unavoidable turn, as many people already forefelt, will force a lot of users to stop using it, it will lost publicity and popularity - without it, it will be pig in a poke for everyone new.

just too early i think..c.
Perhaps you're right, perhaps not. All we users can do, is try before we buy. In any case, I probably won't be an early buyer, as I'll need the cash to upgrade to Modo 401. But I most certainly will keep an eye on Indigo's further development.

@ Benn: Will there be a feature list issued any time soon?

dlomas
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by dlomas » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:41 am

Hi there, Ozzie Dave ere, I've only been using Indigo for a couple of weeks now and well now that the kiwi's let the cat out the bag, I reckon in this current financial climate $600 bucks au is a bit steep, maybe you could let us pay by instalments @ 10% pm with papal or something i.e 30 day activation, or else it drops back to free version until next payment is received or its paid for completely.
Its just a thought, also let me say thanks for the privilege of letting me use Indigo for so long, I really appreciate that and I recognise all your hard work (programming stress) I reckon you've earnt your pay :)

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Behrendt
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by Behrendt » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:40 pm

I'm quite dissapointed that Indigo is going to be comercial. But I'm only dissapointed of the general fact, that it is going to be comercial. I'm certainly not dissapointed of Ono. To be honest, I expected this to happen way earlier, and in my opinion it's the logical next step that Indigo is taking.
But when will the first commercial versions be available? I'm quite concerned if Indigo is user friendly enough to release it as a commercial software at the current state. A major fact that was fascinating me about Indigo in the past (and I'm using it since 0.2) was the experiment work the community has undergone with every new feature. But I'm not sure if users will pay money to experiment with a piece of software. But anyways - good luck for the future you guys!

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kikeonline
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by kikeonline » Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:05 pm

I'm so Depressed :(

I live in a Third World country... I make $500 a month... Its going to be very hard for me to ever buy Indigo.

I had the perfect Workflow Ubuntu>Blender>Blendigo>Indigo.

Thanks for the years of joy that I had with Indigo I really apreciated.

:|

handsomedave
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by handsomedave » Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:59 pm

I live in a soon to be third world country. It's called the USA.

sk2k
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by sk2k » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:23 pm

Hi,

i have nothing against the fact that Indigo is going commercial and i wish the Indigo team good luck with it.

What irritates me was the lack of communication between the Indigo team and the users about this fundamental change. It should have been discussed BEFORE because without the community Indigo would be nowhere.

MfG
sk2k

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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by Big Fan » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:30 pm

@Ono
Thanks for your statement to the long time community.
I know PR is not your strong point but its nice to acknowledge the role of the community at this time.
Many people have participted in the Indigo internet family while it has developed and there is some attachment to it that warrants some sensitivity I think even as you are eagerly anticipating the next exciting stage for Indigo.
This transition could have been handled a little better but I guess we can be generous again and put it down to it being another learning experience for you and for Ben.
There will be many people disappointed that Indigo will no longer be free to use as it has been.
I am not entirely sure everyone will agree with your memory re free but I think people appreciate that attaining an income wasnt achievable with your SDK model.
Indigo is a very good renderer and it deserves success and you deserve reward for your time and skill. No one is perfect, you do have the right to make mistakes and recover from them.
Most likely the people who buy Indigo will be a different group than the people involved until now so this milestone marks the end of an era as far as the old community is concerned.
Certainly it is quite a bit different place already from early days when it was just a band of renderer geeks exchanging tech tip bits and experimenting with the pioneer code.
You wont want the same rabble forum as now for professional users or they will ask for their money back.
Anyway good fortune on the next step of your journey.
There is quite a bit more work to be done yet and I venture more learning experiences to come.

BF

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The Fox...
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by The Fox... » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:29 pm

@kikeonline: This is capitalism you know... :( Use luxrender instead! :D

Stinkie
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by Stinkie » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:44 pm

sk2k wrote:What irritates me was the lack of communication between the Indigo team and the users about this fundamental change. It should have been discussed BEFORE
Considering nothing's changed just yet - the 'old' Indigo is still available, the 'new' one's not out yet - they in fact have discussed the changes 'before'.

Logic's great. Try it. :twisted:

jim_archviz
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by jim_archviz » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:47 pm

Clearly this is Ono's right to try to get a descent wage from his hard work on Indigo.

However, I do understand that some people might be upset by the arguably unethical way this commercial transition was carried forward.

This does not play well towards Glare Tech. reputation.

When a professional comes to depend on a piece of sotfware, he wants to be reasonnably sure that he can trust the company providing it, and that there are no legal liabilities involved.

This move is also a great opportunity for the exporters/plugins developpers: Clearly, there is an opportunity to make a few thousand euros selling the exporter to Glare Tech (You would not accept only a percentage on sales, would you? ;-) )
After all, what would Indigo be without good exporters?

Thus, overall, I only reasonnable advice for professionals looking into Indigo is to stay away from it until the situation has clarified. Perhaps at the end of this year, or next year.

Stinkie
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by Stinkie » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:55 pm

jim_archviz wrote:However, I do understand that some people might be upset by the arguably unethical way this commercial transition was carried forward.
I have to ask: what would have been an ethical way of going about things? Mind you, this is not a rhetorical question.

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