Pavoda Rendering Thread

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Zalevskiy
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by Zalevskiy » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:04 pm

Amazing work. My opinion is that the indigo engine lacks the sharpness of the details that give Arnold the result and Redshift, and fake blooms like Octane.

In principle, all this can be achieved through post-production in Photoshop.

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pavoda
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by pavoda » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:41 pm

Oscar J wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:13 am
One of these shots are on the front page now! :)

I noticed. I'm very happy about that :D

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noelyone
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by noelyone » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:13 pm

Hi Pavoda

Great work. I am especially curious as to the method you use to have so much natural light entering into your interior spaces? For example when I render interiors my ceilings always appear darker at the edges - see attached image. In some of your images you don't even have any electric lights in the ceiling yet your scenes remain so bright. Can I ask do you use HDRI or sun/sky?

My technique is: In the settings I use environment map (HDRI), I do not tick 'add sun'... then when it starts rendering I change the gamma to 1.2. How do you do it???

Many thanks in advance!

Noel
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80a.jpg

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pavoda
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by pavoda » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:16 pm

Hi noelyone,

it's mainly about the camera tonemapping. I use agfapan-apx 400-sCD and other color tuning I do postproduction in the Lightroom. But there is one secret tip to speed up rendering and make the interior brighter. In front of the windows glass is put area light. It must be invisible, with this light you can correct the overall luminosity of the interior.

Just set this light as light layer and you can easy mix HDR light and this window lights to achieve best result.
I use HDR as environment with gamma 1-1.3. You can also try increase the gpu max ray depth to >15. The corners will be lighter and transparent material more natural.

I hope this helps you and I will be glad if you show us your next renders ;)

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noelyone
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by noelyone » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:54 am

Hi Pavoda

There are some great tips there... thank you very much for your time - much appreciated! I've already had a play with the current interior I'm working on and both changing the camera tone and adding a 'window light layer' have definitely helped solve the issue I have been having.

Thanks again!

Noel

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pavoda
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by pavoda » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:48 pm

Hi, this is my last projekt. It is 360 walkthrough of whole flat. Rendering by indigo sure. Link here: http://www.pavoda.cz/01/
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Studentska-06_ 01.jpg

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Oscar J
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by Oscar J » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:50 am

Wow, great work. My only criticism would be that the denoising effect is a bit noticeable, maybe you could render for a bit longer, or add back just a touch of the raw "noisy" version of the image.

The wrinkles on the sofa look a bit strong and unnatural. Are you using a bump map or normal map for that?

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pavoda
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by pavoda » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:52 am

I agree with you Oscar about denoise images. It is spherical images in 6000x3000 res. rendered about 45 minutes/1 image on RTX 2080ti. I accept render time for one image to one hour, not more. ..some details are lost after denoising. it is quite complicate problem. No denoised images need much time to very clear effect, but denoised image lose some details. I have tried to echieve very good result to make mix of noise and denoise images (photoshop). But whet I render 10 big images in queue I can set only save noise or denoise images. I would have to generate two versions for each image then edit the mix. It is not too effective for me. I am not mainly graphic, but designer and architect. I need very good result in good time not perfect in long long time.
I would recommend that indigo allow to save both versions of the image (noise and denoise). It would be nice upgrade for me.
I also think it would be a good idea to be able to set that denoising be applied at the end of rendering ... during continuous denoisig I think efficiency is reduced.

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Zom-B
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by Zom-B » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:01 pm

Your output looks awesome, a great tour with awesome natural light feel and great balance, great work!!
pavoda wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:52 am
I agree with you Oscar about denoise images. It is spherical images in 6000x3000 res. rendered about 45 minutes/1 image on RTX 2080ti. I accept render time for one image to one hour, not more. ..some details are lost after denoising. it is quite complicate problem. No denoised images need much time to very clear effect, but denoised image lose some details.
So I would for sure give these extra 15minutesto Indigo 8)
Do you use SuperSampling?! If not: set it to 2, since the denoiser works with the internal resolution it would denoise the 12000x6000 internal image data and downscale. By that you end up with way more preserved details. But beware: if the full internal resolution normal & albedo pass is still to noisy, the result could also suffer!
Best do a test with SS 0, 1 and 2 of a your scene, and you'll see the difference.
OIDN is still in early stage of development, so in the future we have enhancements here too (atm the OIDN neural network code gets some enhancements, so I expect some "smarter" learning Data being shipped with OIDN next)

pavoda wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:52 am
I would recommend that indigo allow to save both versions of the image (noise and denoise). It would be nice upgrade for me.
a good idea for sure, maybe as an renderchannel...?

pavoda wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:52 am
I also think it would be a good idea to be able to set that denoising be applied at the end of rendering ... during continuous denoising I think efficiency is reduced.
Something to think about for sure! Atm you can render in console mode, then the image gets denoised only after reaching the halt parameter before saving.


What do you use for your 360 Tour. customized marzipano or some advanced package just using it?

I noticed your bulps in the living room are solid glass blocks instead of having a glass thickness :wink:
polygonmanufaktur.de

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pavoda
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by pavoda » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:25 am

Thanks Zom-B!
I use SS 1 for denoised images, beacuse it is faster denoising, less ram and when I tested first version of Indigo with denoiser some artefact occured - like big blured farflies. But I will try test it with SS 2 again now.

I would prefer make button some like "denoise on the end" then Indigo will render without denoising, after reaching the halt it will save image, then the image gets denoised and save again with suffix "d" or "denoise".
This solution seems me more friendly than save as a renderchannel.

thanks for info about console mode - I tested it and it really is.

360 Tour is customized marzipano as like you said. Some parameters I was changed for cleaner HUD.
good eye about bulbs - it is solid, I know about it. I should adjust it. :)

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Zom-B
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by Zom-B » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:11 pm

pavoda wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:25 am
Thanks Zom-B!
I use SS 1 for denoised images, beacuse it is faster denoising, less ram and when I tested first version of Indigo with denoiser some artifact occurred - like big blured farflies. But I will try test it with SS 2 again now.
yes, higher SS value also results in a noisier internal albedo & normal pass image since the resolution is so big. these two passes are used by Indigo to tell the denoiser about what to take care of: you want them to be clean and (near) noiseless!

So a higher SS is not fitted to denoise some low spp renderings but is perfect to clear up noise in a long run render without sacrificing details. This SS + denoise combo is quite unique in Indigo and a big benefit over other renderengines!

Nowadays you cancontrole the max RAM usage of the denoiser, check the latest changelogs of Indigo.


Here is my list of requested denoise workflow enhancements I posted in the Bugtracker, anything to add?!

Code: Select all

1) if rendering is haltet switching denoise checkbox doesn't do a full denoising process each time
2) checkbox named "denoise only on saving"
3) during Render channels saving a info would be great like "Denoising 3/7 done",
   so the user knows how many passes are still to go.
   Atm you have a hard time knowing that Indigo is done with all channels...
4) A render channel with full beauty render WITHOUT denoising applied,
   so the user can mix in post or has a fallback if denoised image is not as intended
5) Having a denoise % slider to mix source output with denoised output would be great
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Zalevskiy
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by Zalevskiy » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:56 am

Here is my list of requested denoise workflow enhancements I posted in the Bugtracker, anything to add?!
6) checkbox enable tile texture off

very helpful for applying sticker / logo label material

usage example:
https://youtu.be/GESiRlLGF6Y

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Zom-B
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by Zom-B » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:12 pm

I'll add that to the Bugtracker (if it isn't in already) ;)

But here I'm specificly asking about denoise workflow, any ideas?
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Paraket
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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by Paraket » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:51 pm

Zalevskiy wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:56 am

6) checkbox enable tile texture off
Yes, add this, please, to the bugtracker, this is one of the most useful functions when you create complex materials!

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Re: Pavoda Rendering Thread

Post by Zom-B » Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:32 pm

I did a ticket and merged it with the request for mirrored tiling that isn't supported my Indigo atm too
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