[BUG] Light Layers Mess U.U

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Lal-O
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[BUG] Light Layers Mess U.U

Post by Lal-O » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:28 pm

Hi Guys.
I've been working on an interior project and there are some things driving me nuts :?

1) 9.5 Hrs to get rid of almost all noise !!! :shock: Is this normal for a scene like this ? I'd like to you guys give a try to my scene to find what i am certanly doing wrong :D ( If you like to 8) )

2) The sun light layer is mixed with the other light layers ( except with the sky one ).If i turn off the sun light layer this one keeps ON when I enable the other light layers ( attach samples ).

Skindigo and Indigo latest versions. 8)
Attachments
Preview.jpg
Settings.jpg
Sun layer ON ALL The others off.jpg
Only Sky layer ON.jpg
ONLY artificial lights ON.jpg

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Oscar J
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Re: [BUG] Light Layers Mess U.U

Post by Oscar J » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:39 pm

Do upload the scene so we can have a look. :)

I would use BiDir for this scene, especially since you have a good CPU. Try exit portals as well. The whole scene is lit by small patches of sharp sunlight, GPU single dir struggles with that.

I have no idea about what's going on with the light layers. :)

Eneen
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Re: [BUG] Light Layers Mess U.U

Post by Eneen » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:33 am

Oscar J wrote:Try exit portals as well.
Little OT but do you have any fresh news about portals development?

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Lal-O
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Re: [BUG] Light Layers Mess U.U

Post by Lal-O » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:25 am

Oscar J wrote:Do upload the scene so we can have a look. :)

I would use BiDir for this scene, especially since you have a good CPU. Try exit portals as well. The whole scene is lit by small patches of sharp sunlight, GPU single dir struggles with that.

I have no idea about what's going on with the light layers. :)
Hi Oscar J. Thx for the reply :D
Sure mate , here is the download link:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... jhINUdpTkU

Feel free to do whatever you want to the file. :wink: ( Please let me know if all is ok ).

I guess this is a good momet to clear some doubts i have about indigo...

As far as i know, GPU is the fastest way or method of rendering, right?.

BiDir is not working with GPU neither exit portals,right?.

Is Indigo a "Hybrid" renderer ? ( I mean...Uses the power of the processor and video card at the same time to render when is selected OPENCL? ). I am asking this because i also use THEA render ( not much really ) and the developers boast that the program is hybrid , but the rendering times are similar ( not the quality , indigo is waaaay better :wink: ) than indigo ,which i am not sure if is hybrid or not :oops:

Cheers.

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Oscar J
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Re: [BUG] Light Layers Mess U.U

Post by Oscar J » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:57 am

Hmm, some misconceptions here.

*GPU is not always the fastest rendering method (yet). Otherwise, what would be the point of keeping the other render modes? :) BiDir on CPU is still better at dealing with more difficult lighting scenarios, such as your scene.

I tried your scene, and it's probably the slowest rendering interior I have ever seen. :) You have made it incredible difficult for the sunlight to "find its way" into the room, and the whole room is lit up by those small light patches. I would say 9 hours is actually a reasonably good render time considering how it's lit. :)

I would try adding exit portals to help connecting the sunlight to the camera. Use that together with BiDir and you *might* get better render times. Another way to improve rendering speed would be simply removing the glass windows and the brick walls and architecture that's blocking all the sunlight, and maybe putting the sunlight at a lower angle so that it enters the room properly.

* GPU currently doesn't work with BiDir.

* GPU currently doesn't work with Exit Portals.

* Regarding "hybrid rendering" you've basically answered your own question. Under OpenCL, you can use CPU + GPU to render (although the main rendering power will definitely come from GPU), which technically makes it hybrid, right?

Eneen: Nope, I asked Ono but got no answer.

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Re: [BUG] Light Layers Mess U.U

Post by Zom-B » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:16 am

Hey Lal-O, I try to answer some of your questions here:
Lal-O wrote:As far as i know, GPU is the fastest way or method of rendering, right?.
Regarding the raw Path Tracing performance it is. Even older GPUs can easily outperform potent CPUs, best to check the IndigoBenchmark results for some numbers: https://www.indigorenderer.com/benchmark-results
Lal-O wrote:BiDir is not working with GPU neither exit portals,right?.
Yes, atm BiDir is not available for GPU rendering. Also Exit Portals aren't usable for GPU rendering either, but afaik this will be changed at some point. Porting BiDir to the GPU is afaik a bigger task. The speed benefit of a potent GPU can still bruteforce through complex scenes without BiDir, also keeping in mind that you can build a multi GPU system with a decent budget, while a multi CPU system waaaay more budget.
Lal-O wrote:Is Indigo a "Hybrid" renderer ? ( I mean...Uses the power of the processor and video card at the same time to render when is selected OPENCL? ). I am asking this because i also use THEA render ( not much really ) and the developers boast that the program is hybrid , but the rendering times are similar ( not the quality , indigo is waaaay better :wink: ) than indigo ,which i am not sure if is hybrid or not :oops:
Indigo can use every possible OpenCL device to speed up GPU rendering, also the CPU. Sadly the common CPU is quite slow in OpenCL compute and also bottlenecks the rendering most of the time, and therefore even can slow down rendering!
The best results are usually achieved by rendering with GPU(s) only.
Maybe in the future this can change, but at the moment its as described.
polygonmanufaktur.de

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pavoda
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Re: [BUG] Light Layers Mess U.U

Post by pavoda » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:51 am

Lal-O wrote:Hi Guys.
I've been working on an interior project and there are some things driving me nuts :?

1) 9.5 Hrs to get rid of almost all noise !!! :shock: Is this normal for a scene like this ? I'd like to you guys give a try to my scene to find what i am certanly doing wrong :D ( If you like to 8) )

2) The sun light layer is mixed with the other light layers ( except with the sky one ).If i turn off the sun light layer this one keeps ON when I enable the other light layers ( attach samples ).

Skindigo and Indigo latest versions. 8)

Hi,
If is scene "dark" and sun/sky light is few, you can use more interior lights.
your scene is quite complicated - how Oscar J described, you can fix it and it will be faster. But this is my 15 mins render and some noise reduse. Result is quite usable. Final render can take about 2 hr, I think it is normal for interior like this. If you want to make clear picture for each separate layer, the render time will be much longer - of course

Mix sun with another layers is some bug i think. I had same problem
Attachments
Dining Rom_f.jpg

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Oscar J
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Re: [BUG] Light Layers Mess U.U

Post by Oscar J » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:51 am

Nice job pavoda. :)

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Lal-O
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Re: [BUG] Light Layers Mess U.U

Post by Lal-O » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:32 pm

Oscar J wrote:I tried your scene, and it's probably the slowest rendering interior I have ever seen. :) You have made it incredible difficult for the sunlight to "find its way" into the room, and the whole room is lit up by those small light patches. I would say 9 hours is actually a reasonably good render time considering how it's lit
:lol: Sorry mate , It is a real project , so i just wanted to show my client how much light will enter to that space :D

Thx Pavoda for taking time to give my model a try. :) . The main problem with the noise is in natural light conditions. By enabling the light layers the rendering becomes really fast 5-7 min max.

Thank you so much guys for the clarifications. Now everything seem to be easier and clear. :wink:

Ok, the rendering time issue is been solved :D ...any clue about the sun light layer ? :roll: ( No1. Sun Layer and No.2 Sky Light Layer)

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Lal-O
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Re: [BUG] Light Layers Mess U.U

Post by Lal-O » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:19 pm

I have noticed that the problem remains only by using GPU, there is no problem if i render with CPU :D

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Pibuz
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Re: [BUG] Light Layers Mess U.U

Post by Pibuz » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:49 am

Hi Lal-o!
First of all, you've now struggling with a very complex topic :lol:

Architecture is a very complex geometry model, and light bounces are complicate to calculate in almost every situation. Direct sunlight for example, even though it's the most natural lighting, is quite complex to calculate.

The abilty of the archvizer is not only to find the best POV but also to "cheat" unseen. Keep whatever is necessary and drop everything you don't see. So, much often rather than not, a whole complex turns to be hidden excepted the two-three spaces interconnected in the specific view you're about to render, and that is only the starting trick!

Hide all the glasses you can, make "architectural glass" the largest part of the remaining, forget glasses over the spotlights. In many cases, try not to use the sun/sky system, as for architecture it tends to un-balance the image: you can get much better control with emitting panels at the windows, splitted into separate layers. I wanted to say "try using HDRs" but in most cases when combined with artificial lighting you will have to be a little more Indigo-skilled not to get mad :lol:

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