Hello, there,
I am new to the 3D software world, though I am familiar with most of the 2D stuff - Photoshop, Illustrator, and the like.
I am trying to learn as much as I can and found out about Indigo from another forum. Up until now I was planning on going with something like Modo for both modeling and rendering. But seeing the Indigo gallery really made me do a double-take.
I am sure that in a year from now when I am familiar with 3D software in general I wouldn't need to ask this, but why is it better to go with Indigo rather than the built-in renderers in the modelers like Modo/Cinema/and others?
Sorry if this is an obvious question...and thanks all for any response or guidance in starting out in the 3D world productively...
- A
Newbie Q: Why Indigo?
I think Indigo is mostly for physical accuracy; in most renderers there is a lot of parameter to set up in order to get realistic results while in Indigo the behaviour of light and ability to use real world based values for parameters gives quite impressive results straight out of the box.
However this photorealistic accuracy is at the price of rendering time because where biased renderers compute a finite amount of samples per pixel and averages them, Indigo keeps on rendering until you stop him; the image is progressively emerging from noise, the process often takes hours to get a clean image.
Shortly said: you will learn Indigo quicker than another rendering engine, because with indigo quality is a matter of rendering time rather than mastering a plethora of parameters for Global illumination and such. Indigo's materials are quite simple except maybe subsurface scattering ones wich have more params (but absorbance and index of refraction are pretty much all of them, so in a way they are simple too). Well, that wasn't that short but that's pretty much enough for now
Now my 2 cents: If you want to impress people, go with Indigo
However this photorealistic accuracy is at the price of rendering time because where biased renderers compute a finite amount of samples per pixel and averages them, Indigo keeps on rendering until you stop him; the image is progressively emerging from noise, the process often takes hours to get a clean image.
Shortly said: you will learn Indigo quicker than another rendering engine, because with indigo quality is a matter of rendering time rather than mastering a plethora of parameters for Global illumination and such. Indigo's materials are quite simple except maybe subsurface scattering ones wich have more params (but absorbance and index of refraction are pretty much all of them, so in a way they are simple too). Well, that wasn't that short but that's pretty much enough for now
Now my 2 cents: If you want to impress people, go with Indigo
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daniel_nieto
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:45 am
- Location: Ciudad Guzman, Jalisco, México
- Contact:
why indigo? simply; because God has send it.
hahaha seriously talking, i think it depends of what you need, if you want to do cartoonish renders, you should look for other render, indigo is real thing... like Ricky said, it depends on generally that two points... or if you plan to do animations, indigo it's not quite the "renderer" for the job. Overall, i fully recommend Indigo, it's easy (it has some strange parameters that you as a newbie, [as me], will be hard to understand [well, it happened to me], like camera bloom, exposure, white balance, tonemapping, etc, etc... but actually it's easier, A LOT EASIER achieve realistic outputs), it's FREE!, and it's on constant developing... I RECOMMEND IT 100%
PostData: If you are new to 3d computer graphics, i will tell you about Blender(http://www.blender.org/) it's an open source 3d suite GNU/GPL... you should check it!!!
hahaha seriously talking, i think it depends of what you need, if you want to do cartoonish renders, you should look for other render, indigo is real thing... like Ricky said, it depends on generally that two points... or if you plan to do animations, indigo it's not quite the "renderer" for the job. Overall, i fully recommend Indigo, it's easy (it has some strange parameters that you as a newbie, [as me], will be hard to understand [well, it happened to me], like camera bloom, exposure, white balance, tonemapping, etc, etc... but actually it's easier, A LOT EASIER achieve realistic outputs), it's FREE!, and it's on constant developing... I RECOMMEND IT 100%
PostData: If you are new to 3d computer graphics, i will tell you about Blender(http://www.blender.org/) it's an open source 3d suite GNU/GPL... you should check it!!!
From México, Daniel Nieto .·.-
joegiampaoli
- Posts: 837
- Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:12 am
- Location: San Miguel de Allende-MEXICO
- Contact:
My God Daniel, I didn't know you were so religious....!
Indigo is extremely good (the best for me) for natural lighting accuracy and realism but only for stand alone images, an animation would take a lot of time to process, whatever you like to render (architectural, mechanical, engineering, I have not seen any medical samples yet, but I bet they would look awesome), also it's free and it's 100% supported by the well known open source 3d App known as blender.
Maybe the most important thing for all of us here, and what we like most, is the best kick ass 24 hour support included with the package
Note: Like Daniel says, if you are new to 3D, start with blender, don't even think about commercial 3d appz, dont let merchandise or people confuse you, it will give you exactly the same as other commercial appz, I myself was a 3D studio Max, Maya and Lightwave user in windows, ever since I switched to linux I understood that none of those I was going to be able to use any more, so I had to sit and learn blender, now, I know how much I missed from it.
Indigo is extremely good (the best for me) for natural lighting accuracy and realism but only for stand alone images, an animation would take a lot of time to process, whatever you like to render (architectural, mechanical, engineering, I have not seen any medical samples yet, but I bet they would look awesome), also it's free and it's 100% supported by the well known open source 3d App known as blender.
Maybe the most important thing for all of us here, and what we like most, is the best kick ass 24 hour support included with the package
Note: Like Daniel says, if you are new to 3D, start with blender, don't even think about commercial 3d appz, dont let merchandise or people confuse you, it will give you exactly the same as other commercial appz, I myself was a 3D studio Max, Maya and Lightwave user in windows, ever since I switched to linux I understood that none of those I was going to be able to use any more, so I had to sit and learn blender, now, I know how much I missed from it.
Yup, as long as you didn't learn any other app, I recomment you using blender...
But when you learned an other app, it will be hard to get used to blender, when you need it.
However, if you have enough money (and time), it MAY be a good idea, to just use as many apps as possible, as some apps do a better job in some things, than others...
Indigo: cool, great, highrealistic, stastifying, quite simple to setup, free, maybe once opensource, must not be, though, FAST in development (an other good poin in blender, too: it really develops fast), so, not just the images get better and better progressively, but also the program itself.
You may need some little knowelge, to get used to it, it's quite slow at renderig (as all the unbiased renderers), it just gets userfriendliness, but izt's not VERY, atm... The lastest stable Vewrsion (0.7, atm) has a GUI...
Two overall things:
- You really SHOULD use it
- but sometimes, it's also better to use other renderers, as they're faster and you may don't want to create a realistic pic, AND it atm lacks in animation... no Motionblur and if you don't want to wait some days, the result of the Animation will be quite unstatisfying
Also, it really depens heavily on your, how long you have to wait...
But when you learned an other app, it will be hard to get used to blender, when you need it.
However, if you have enough money (and time), it MAY be a good idea, to just use as many apps as possible, as some apps do a better job in some things, than others...
Indigo: cool, great, highrealistic, stastifying, quite simple to setup, free, maybe once opensource, must not be, though, FAST in development (an other good poin in blender, too: it really develops fast), so, not just the images get better and better progressively, but also the program itself.
You may need some little knowelge, to get used to it, it's quite slow at renderig (as all the unbiased renderers), it just gets userfriendliness, but izt's not VERY, atm... The lastest stable Vewrsion (0.7, atm) has a GUI...
Two overall things:
- You really SHOULD use it
- but sometimes, it's also better to use other renderers, as they're faster and you may don't want to create a realistic pic, AND it atm lacks in animation... no Motionblur and if you don't want to wait some days, the result of the Animation will be quite unstatisfying
Also, it really depens heavily on your, how long you have to wait...
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AngelicLight
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 12:52 pm
Thank you, all, for the replies.
My interest is more toward realistic single-frame images, so I think Indigo might be more up my alley, so to speak...
I have only looked at the demos for some commercial modelers but am willing to go with Blender. However, I can't help but wonder about it's capabiites in both workflow (productivity) and performance.
I don't mind paying for a modeler, but I also don't mind going with Blender if it'll do the same things just as quickly. I guess a good "devil's advocate" question would be...is being 'free' the only thing that makes it as popular as it is?
Like I said, I don't mind making it my go-to program, but (minus wizards, included models, etc, or commercial programs) is it possible in a practical way to get just as much done in the same amount of time as commercial ones?
I know that in a month of using the software I won't have questions like these, but not being too exposed to 3D software in general I could definitely see wasting hours/days/months in not using the best software productivity and results-wise just because I didn't know it was out there...
Thanks again for any input and guidance...
- A
My interest is more toward realistic single-frame images, so I think Indigo might be more up my alley, so to speak...
I have only looked at the demos for some commercial modelers but am willing to go with Blender. However, I can't help but wonder about it's capabiites in both workflow (productivity) and performance.
I don't mind paying for a modeler, but I also don't mind going with Blender if it'll do the same things just as quickly. I guess a good "devil's advocate" question would be...is being 'free' the only thing that makes it as popular as it is?
Like I said, I don't mind making it my go-to program, but (minus wizards, included models, etc, or commercial programs) is it possible in a practical way to get just as much done in the same amount of time as commercial ones?
I know that in a month of using the software I won't have questions like these, but not being too exposed to 3D software in general I could definitely see wasting hours/days/months in not using the best software productivity and results-wise just because I didn't know it was out there...
Thanks again for any input and guidance...
- A
I started off with commercial apps . . . mainly 3ds max. I switched to Blender, at first, for of the price.
It took me a while to make the switch and get used to the differences, but I'm quite glad that I did. I don't expect to ever purchase 3D software in the future . . . Blender is very capable and getting better all the time. With the renderers available (including the internal one), it also lacks nothing in the way of image output quality and flexibility.
As for indigo, you can't beat it for realism and cost. Since you're new to this field, I recommend you try these two great apps together, as well as any others you have access to. At the very least, they will allow you to 'get your feet wet' with a minimal investment of money, and an investment of time comparable to most other software.
Hope that helps!
It took me a while to make the switch and get used to the differences, but I'm quite glad that I did. I don't expect to ever purchase 3D software in the future . . . Blender is very capable and getting better all the time. With the renderers available (including the internal one), it also lacks nothing in the way of image output quality and flexibility.
As for indigo, you can't beat it for realism and cost. Since you're new to this field, I recommend you try these two great apps together, as well as any others you have access to. At the very least, they will allow you to 'get your feet wet' with a minimal investment of money, and an investment of time comparable to most other software.
Hope that helps!
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mrCarnivore
- Posts: 517
- Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:20 am
- Location: Stuttgart, Germany
I started with 3ds a while back but got frustrated quickly and stopped using it. (I didn't put too much efford into it I must admit)
After a whilce I started with blender one and a half years ago and instantly started to like it. In my experience it's not the amount of features a product has but the support/documentation you can get your hands on to help you use it.
Blender has many features like fluid sim, soft body sim (fabric simulation), node editor, game engine, sculpt mode and so on. But what is really stunning about it is the community behind blender. I started off in the german http://www.blendpolis.org forum where you can get an answer to almost any UI or renderer related question in minutes!! For the english speaking guys there always is http://www.blenderartists.org/forum which gives almost the same quality of help.
Which 3d app is best for you mainly depends on what you want to do with it. If you want to do general 3d work I strongly suggest blender. If you want to mainly do character modelling, z-brush might be the better choice for you...
After a whilce I started with blender one and a half years ago and instantly started to like it. In my experience it's not the amount of features a product has but the support/documentation you can get your hands on to help you use it.
Blender has many features like fluid sim, soft body sim (fabric simulation), node editor, game engine, sculpt mode and so on. But what is really stunning about it is the community behind blender. I started off in the german http://www.blendpolis.org forum where you can get an answer to almost any UI or renderer related question in minutes!! For the english speaking guys there always is http://www.blenderartists.org/forum which gives almost the same quality of help.
Which 3d app is best for you mainly depends on what you want to do with it. If you want to do general 3d work I strongly suggest blender. If you want to mainly do character modelling, z-brush might be the better choice for you...
Mmm concerning ZBrush I would say it is complementary to any other traditional 3d app, as it is speciallized in adding details to meshes by providing sculpting tools. ZBrush is much more limited as far as modeling is concerned, for instances ZSpheres are much more like simple extrusions.
I'm a Maya user (wich btw exists for Linux, Joe) but as others I would recommend Blender for it's devellopment rate and huge community. And price
I'm a Maya user (wich btw exists for Linux, Joe) but as others I would recommend Blender for it's devellopment rate and huge community. And price
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Mentioning Z-brush...
Also a great "alternate" modeller is TopMod.
It's (quote from sokmeone, dunno, anymore, who) "yet buggy and messy, but GREAT"
especially for abstract infinite loop meshes, it really works great...
I really need to larn it. The meshes look GREAT, however, 'til now, I didn't quite get the workflow, with it...
Ok: sofar:
General: Blender
Sculpting: Z-brush
Abstract: TopMod
Import to: Blender, to post edit especially the mats and then,
export to Indigo
Also a great "alternate" modeller is TopMod.
It's (quote from sokmeone, dunno, anymore, who) "yet buggy and messy, but GREAT"
especially for abstract infinite loop meshes, it really works great...
I really need to larn it. The meshes look GREAT, however, 'til now, I didn't quite get the workflow, with it...
Ok: sofar:
General: Blender
Sculpting: Z-brush
Abstract: TopMod
Import to: Blender, to post edit especially the mats and then,
export to Indigo
Go for Blender Dude, I really regret starting my 3D work using C4D...
mostly important for your decision is what you wan't to do with your 3D skills in few years!
If its just a hobby, Blender will be the biggest fun, the gigantic Community and the fast development is great!
Also if you want to work as a Freelancing 3D Artist, your 3D app choice is up to you... as long as you stay an "one man Army"
But if you plan to join 3D workgroups that do animated Advertise etc. using 3D,
Blender is a No-Go
3D agency's mostly use 3DMax, Maya and in Europe also C4D... (afaik)
Don't forget if you are a student, most 3D apps could be bought in a "cheap" student version
mostly important for your decision is what you wan't to do with your 3D skills in few years!
If its just a hobby, Blender will be the biggest fun, the gigantic Community and the fast development is great!
Also if you want to work as a Freelancing 3D Artist, your 3D app choice is up to you... as long as you stay an "one man Army"
But if you plan to join 3D workgroups that do animated Advertise etc. using 3D,
Blender is a No-Go
3D agency's mostly use 3DMax, Maya and in Europe also C4D... (afaik)
Don't forget if you are a student, most 3D apps could be bought in a "cheap" student version
polygonmanufaktur.de
And since your original question was about using Indigo, keep this in mind:
Most here would recommend it, particularly if (as you mentioned) your interest is in stills and realism.
If you go with a modeling app that doesn't have a decent Indigo exporter, you can always just use Blender as a middle-man to get your scenes rendered.
Most here would recommend it, particularly if (as you mentioned) your interest is in stills and realism.
If you go with a modeling app that doesn't have a decent Indigo exporter, you can always just use Blender as a middle-man to get your scenes rendered.
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