First use of an Environment Map

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madcoo
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First use of an Environment Map

Post by madcoo » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:01 pm

Hi all!

Here's my first attempt at using an environment map.

Used Sketchup / Skindigo.
Thanks to Pibuz, I took many items from the SU Warehouse, which saved a lot of time for the modelling part!!!

I had trouble finding the right Camera settings, because the env map is so bright compared with the room.
If I lower the overall brightness I get a nice blue sky outside, but a nearly totally dark room...
:?
4.jpg
Render with lights "on"
5.jpg
Render with lights "off"
I also have trouble finding the right settings for the lights - I wanted them to diffuse light all over the room, but all it does is glow...
:(
(I used Skindigo's "fluorescent - cool" material preset)
3.jpg
Lights only
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suvakas
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by suvakas » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:28 pm

You have to change your cam settings for the lights.
Raise your iso or ev values for example.

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Pibuz
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by Pibuz » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:52 pm

Hi Mad!
The image you post is very inetersting indeed!

First of all, always remember that an interior shot will almost always (97% of the cases) show overexposed exteriors :lol:
That is a natural consequence of the optical properties of cameras, included Indigo's. So, to increase realism, a first step would be to make the EXR map even a little brigher, according to me.

The values you find in the emitter presets are to be used only as a starting point. They have correct colour, but powers can vary given the different size of the geometry they're applied to, and the different environment conditions. Working with a surrounded EXR could be the "issue" here: I suggest you put the emitters on a different light layer and then adjust their power while the render is running with the layer blending option.

Btw, the image is very particular, and there are a lot of good starting points. I was wondering if you could share the settings you used for the lamp on the right (dome's materials) and the floor.
Can you also link us to the models of the pictures please? They're cool!

I'd work a little on the couch's material: I see better a diffuse (simulating a fabric material) than a phong (leather-like material) :wink:

Keep going!

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madcoo
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by madcoo » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:53 pm

Hi!

Thanks for reassuring me regarding the env.map's brightness.

Regarding the pictures on the wall, I took them from http://www.cgtextures.com, in the "Splatter" section - except I changed the red paint to black in Photoshop.

The floor's texture is from CGTextures again, under the "Marble > Noisy" section.
I'm not at home so I can't give you the IOR/Exp settings right now but if you want them I can post them later on.
I suggest you put the emitters on a different light layer and then adjust their power while the render is running with the layer blending option.
That's what I did, but I lowered them a lot because I had bright white balls, and I wanted to get some kind of "natural incandescent light" feeling.
I used the same "fluorescent-cool" preset for all the lights (including the one on the right).
But I'll work on different light powers later on.

@Suvakas=> thanks for your comment. I showed this picture just to illustrate the fact that I don't get any radiance from the lights - they don't seem to be emitting light around them... This is probably due to the light power too, but when I raise the blending setting I lose this "bright yellow" feel...
Maybe I should start with an incandescent light preset (very yellow), so I can keep this yellowish feel even when raising the power and blend settings...
:(

@Pibuz=> I quite like the current couch's material, but I also agree that a fabric material would be better.
I actually think that a leather material looks best with more detailed models (creases and bumps showing that people have been sitting on it), which is not the case here.

I also want to add a book on the table, lower the reflectivity of the table's material, and add a couple of car-keys or house-keys in the foregrown to liven up the scene. I'm also going to lower the brightness of the plants' leaves' because they look so "plastic-made".

Many thanks again for your comments and help guys!
:D
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suvakas
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by suvakas » Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:17 pm

madcoo wrote: @Suvakas=> thanks for your comment. I showed this picture just to illustrate the fact that I don't get any radiance from the lights - they don't seem to be emitting light around them...
Hmm..not true. Just wrong camera settings. You can't expect to have the same kind of illumination with daytime cam settings at night? I adjusted the gamma of your image a bit tho show you that the light is there.
Attachments
lights.jpg

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madcoo
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by madcoo » Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:19 pm

:mrgreen:

Thanks for proving me wrong !
:wink:

It's all gonna be about cam settings, then...
I'm struggling but I'll get there some day !!!
:D
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suvakas
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by suvakas » Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:26 pm

You can also adjust the power of your lights.
The final image is a balance between the right cam and emitter settings. :wink:

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madcoo
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by madcoo » Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:30 pm

Yep, indeed I usually tended to stick to 1 kind of film (Gold-200CD), but I discovered that for each scene, the choice of film can be crucial.
Now I just run through all kinds of films to make a choice, and from time to time I even tweak the x/y settings a bit (in the White Balance panel)...
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djegoo
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by djegoo » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:17 pm

Hey Madcoo

Nice scene here.
The difficulty using Env map with lights (or Sun with lights) is that the little lights' power is often too low comparing to the env/sun.
I find very difficult setting the correct light powers at the beginning, but once you have done it once, you can use it anytime !
One solution, if you used light layers, is to increase the light layer's power while rendering, or, if you turned off the env (or sun) change iso like suv said (talking about the black image). There are many solutions, and i think each person has his preferences.

I read somewhere that the sampling was distributed proportionnally to the powers of different emitters. I often "cheat" by giving very imbalanced power to little bulbs, and reducing it while rendering, I really find that technique efficient, but very experimental!!! :lol:

makes me think that i really need a new computer :) just tried env map + lights too, but my computer is getting really too old :)

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madcoo
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by madcoo » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:47 am

Thanks Djeego!

Indeed, finding the right settings for light is a hell of a challenge!!!
I think I'll make myself a basic scene with the same polygon repeated several times, but with different values, so I can visually see (so to speak) the effects of the settings.
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madcoo
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by madcoo » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:19 am

As asked Pibuz, here are the lights and floor settings:

LIGHTS:
- Phong
- IOR 1.2
- Exponent 250
- Emission 1.0
Emitting attributes:
- assign preset => 34W Fluorescent Tube (cool)
(default settings, i.e Temperature = 6000, Power = 34, Efficacy = 50) [*][/b]

FLOOR:
- Phong
- IOR 1.3
- Exponent 10000

Hope it will help!

See ya guys!
:D

__________________________________
[*][/b] I'm taking this opportunity to ask what I should change in these settings to get a realistic effect for lights...
:wink:
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djegoo
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by djegoo » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:29 am

Hey madcoo

I have a "template" file I created for myself, with light values, made them powerful enough to be visible even when sun is turned on, and the real aim is to make it powerful enough to play qwith it while rendering

Here are the values :
Power : 8000
Efficiency : 100
Temp : whatever.
Apply it to a little Square geometry (Can add IES if you like ) 4x4cm approximatively. I always make it a component and instance it.

I noticed these settings render very fast, so i can do different views (day, night etc...) with one render.

With geometries like the one you use, it is quite more difficult, but, once you get it, you can use it whenever you need :twisted:
good luck

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madcoo
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by madcoo » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:48 pm

:D

Many thanks Djeego, I'll try it and let you know about it !!!

I'll have to have a look on the internet to see what "instancing" is.
I know components and groups, but nothing about "instances"...

Thanks!
:wink:
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djegoo
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by djegoo » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:28 am

OOOHwowowowowowo Instancing is THE super feature. Check the SKindigo advanced features model, it is extremely well explained, and once you ll have learned it, you won t work without it anymore :)

In a few words, very simplifided, it acts this way :
you have a component, right click on it an check "enable instancing". If you have maaaaanyyy copies of this component, while exporting to indigo, it will export the geometry only once, because all are clones, but render all. >Works reaally great in skindigo, and you will gain a lot of ram !

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madcoo
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Re: First use of an Environment Map

Post by madcoo » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:34 am

:shock: :shock: :shock:

SOUNDS GREAAAAAAAAAAT !!!!!!!!!

Will try it !!!!

Sounds great for trees, plants, etc !!!!

I'll have a look at the tutorial !!!

Many thanks Djeego!
:D
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