Silverwings Render Corner

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Silverwing
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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by Silverwing » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:30 am

@ OnoSendai:
Thanks for the tipp! I will keep that in mind!
I just used an RGB spectrum to get that nice tint of SSS where the shady parts get more orange colored :-)

@ Oscar J:
That looks much better!
Thanks. I still kind of like both :-)
There's some jpeg compression hurting my eyes though. Do you save your renders as jpegs from Indigo? Be aware - Indigo's saves kinda low quality jpegs.
That would be not really professional would it. Especially if you do some contrast and color correction afterwards :-)

I save 32bit OpenEXR´s to have the best possible quality in comp.
Must have been the saving process out of Photoshop that caused the artifacts.

Cheers,
Raphael
You don´t dream in cryo.

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Zom-B
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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by Zom-B » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:36 am

Silverwing wrote:I save 32bit OpenEXR´s to have the best possible quality in comp.
uhhh... beware!
Sadly tonemappeed EXR files are always clamped to 8bit!
Only untonemapped EXR files have full 32bit, but get saves like linear tonemapping with gain @ 1.
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OnoSendai
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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by OnoSendai » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:38 am

Zom-B wrote: Sadly tonemappeed EXR files are always clamped to 8bit!
I don't think they are.

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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by Zom-B » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:54 am

OnoSendai wrote:I don't think they are.
Well, they have been... based on the tonemapping operators...
I'll retest this at some point, maybe you did a silent update and never told anyone ;)

http://www.indigorenderer.com/forum/vie ... =5&t=13146
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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by OnoSendai » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:55 am

They might get clamped, that doesn't make them 8-bit though.

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Silverwing
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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by Silverwing » Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:26 am

Sorry I should have been more specific. I saved a untonemapped EXR.

With any renderer I use I use it linear. If I need tone mapping I do this later in post.
So for all my renders I have done in Indigo this far I have set the tone mapping to linear and the (Pre)Scale to 1.

Getting linear results out of the renderer is part of my work flow that then closes the gap and the how to between renderer and post. Because I (hopefully) can be sure that what I get is a 32bit linear Image.

Cheers,
Raphael
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Oscar J
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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by Oscar J » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:34 am

Please forgive all my questions: What application do you use to do your tone mapping in 32 bit mode? Photoshop seems very limited in that area. I've trying to get into 32 bit post pro for a while now, but Photoshop does a terrible job with tone mapping (unless I'm missing something). Are you using any special plugins? I've been looking at ArionFX, but unfortunately there's no Mac version yet.

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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by contegufo » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:26 am

I believe that the future is already marked and are maps HDR; no noise, no fireflies. HDR Studiolight 5 is an interesting product but then you no longer need an external Rederer ......
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Oscar J
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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by Oscar J » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:20 am

HDR Light Studio does have a primitive built in renderer, but it's definitely not meant to use for final images. It's mainly meant to show where the reflections land on the surfaces, and show an indication of whether the illumination of your HDRI is balanced right. I love the software, but it certainly can't replace dedicated rendering solutions.

HDRI's are THE future? They do have their strengths and drawbacks - I very much doubt they can replace mesh lights and things like that. The most fundamental limitation is that they're just pictures, they don't really interact with your scene, they don't give light profiles (see IES lights) and you can't animate stuff like you can with mesh lights.

The fact that they often give less fireflies and noise is as much a limitation as it is a strength, it is mainly because they often lack dynamic range compared to for example Sun & Sky. Meaning that the sun is often less bright compare to the rest of the sky and environment in the HDRI. Really good quality HDRI's also give fireflies, just like Sun & Sky, simply because they have more dynamic range and emitting areas of greater intensity.

Another drawback is that they're often heavy to load, and it's more complicated to rotate them in order to give the right light/shadow direction to get the composition of the image right.

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h2o2
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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by h2o2 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:37 am

Oscar J wrote:Please forgive all my questions: What application do you use to do your tone mapping in 32 bit mode? Photoshop seems very limited in that area. I've trying to get into 32 bit post pro for a while now, but Photoshop does a terrible job with tone mapping (unless I'm missing something). Are you using any special plugins? I've been looking at ArionFX, but unfortunately there's no Mac version yet.
For the tone mapping of my work (not in Indigo yet, as i only own RT which doesn't save to HDR format) i use Photomatix Pro, which works on Mac OS X (mandatory for me as i don't want to use Windows...) and does a great job with simple controls and various tone mapping method depending on the look you're after.


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette. :)

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Silverwing
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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by Silverwing » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:28 am

Oscar J wrote:Please forgive all my questions: What application do you use to do your tone mapping in 32 bit mode? Photoshop seems very limited in that area. I've trying to get into 32 bit post pro for a while now, but Photoshop does a terrible job with tone mapping (unless I'm missing something). Are you using any special plugins? I've been looking at ArionFX, but unfortunately there's no Mac version yet.
No worries about the questions.
You are producing stellar work there. I have visited your website and was stunned by the really really nice renders you do. So thumbs up!

It might come as a surprise to you, but I light my scenes linear so they look as good as possible without tone mapping. I do all post work in After Effects. Even the post work for still images.
After Effects in my opinion has some advantages in 32bit work flow compared to Photoshop. Also it allows me to just exchange the rendered image (if I change s shader like for example the ice cubes in the previous render) and every effect just gets applied to the render as before. That would not be possible in Photoshop.

But back to tone mapping: The only think I normally do is adjust the exposure and the gamma of the picture. I never had to "Reinhard" a rendering. But this is clearly a work flow thing. I work a lot with product viz that is rather easy to light right. In comparison to interiors etc. that can be quite tricky to light linearly.

So Ißm a bit sorry to disapoint you there. I might be a little bit old school. But I light and render in "Screen Space" so what I see is what I get (in this case in the Untonemapped EXR)
contegufo wrote:I believe that the future is already marked and are maps HDR; no noise, no fireflies. HDR Studio light 5 is an interesting product but then you no longer need an external Renderer ......
As Oscar already stated it really depends on the the dynamic range of the HDR. Also it depends on the layout of the HDR. By layout I mean the size of the areas of brightness.

When dealing with simple path tracing the algorithm has an easier time finding bigger bright spots then really small ones. So even if you have a really bright spot in your HDRI it also makes a difference hot big it is. Small bright spots are much more prone to cause fireflies then bigger bright spots.

Personally I really like working with HDRI´s because they establish a nice lighting situation right away (if you are using the right HDRI´s of course) But I very often also put 1-2 area lights in the scene to intensify the lighting I am looking for.

P.s. HDRI´s also can come in handy with area lights. For example to reproduce slight uniformity over the surface of the light. Of course this might be barely visible. but as Reality shows a big rum or irregularities it can only help to achieve a more realistic image!

Cheers,
Raphael
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Oscar J
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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by Oscar J » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:00 am

For a guy with a portfolio like yours, you come across as incredibly down to earth and humble. Thanks a lot for your comments and tips - will definitely have a closer look at After Effects for 32 bit editing.

Will download a trial of Photomatrix as well, thanks h2o2.

I experienced the phenomena with small and bright light sources quite clearly a while ago with this render:

http://www.indigorenderer.com/forum/dow ... &mode=view

The lighting consist of very small emitting circles strategically placed around the car. I think the rendering time might have been around 40 to 50 hours, mainly because I had to region render the crap out of quite a few areas to get them even remotely clean (such as the caustics around the mirrors). Granted, I was on a C2D iMac back then, but still... :wink:

Hmm... should probably re-render that with the new carbon fibre material.

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Silverwing
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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by Silverwing » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:38 am

@ Oscar J:
"For a guy with a portfolio like yours, you come across as incredibly down to earth and humble."
Just because I have a couple of good rendering on my site does not make me king ;-)
Thanks I am quite happy that I come across this way.

As for your render. Hmmm that is really sexy. I like your lighting and the car paint material also looks really spot on. Btw. Its not an easy task for a path tracer to get a lot of small light sources noise free ;-)
I´m really looking forward to the 4.0 release of indigo. It sure will be nice. And might give you some speed improvements with your car renders. 40h to 50h is quite a bit of waiting :-)

Cheers,
Raphael
You don´t dream in cryo.

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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by CTZn » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:44 am

Fine works here silverwings, welcome !
obsolete asset

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Silverwing
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Re: Silverwings Render Corner

Post by Silverwing » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:33 am

I still find is fascinating how great simple objects (especially glass) can look with indigo.
Really sexy :-)
As always small color and contrast corrections in AfterEffects.

Cheers,
Raphael
Attachments
Indigo_Glass_Render_01.jpg
Render Method: MLT BiDir
Resolution: 4096x2160 px
Rendertime: 4h
Worth Mentioning: Lit with a single HDRI, Saved as a untonemapped EXR
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