from what I am seeing, there is a lot of blender script development going on with not alot of organization or collaboration between the coders (correct me if I am wrong).
I was wondering if there is any current system of organizing the development that i was not aware of and if there is not, could we please use this as a chance to establish one and assign tasks to the different coders and possibly assign tasks to people who would like to code but haven’t gotten a chance yet.
possibly the update of the wiki page could also be discussed.
organizing blender2indigo development+collaboration attempt
organizing blender2indigo development+collaboration attempt
Last edited by oodmb on Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
a shiny monkey is a happy monkey
hello oodmb,
Well, what you're seeing is what happens when people are writing scripts and exporters while a stable new version isn't there yet. If you dropped just in here, it can be confusing, but most threads here are more about possebilities, than actual code...
For real working stuff, goto the 63beta4 thread for indigo v. 0.6 and the "Indigo 0.7t2 exporter here!" thread for the beta test version of indigo v. 0.7
Greetings from nighttime Amsterdam,
Jan
Well, what you're seeing is what happens when people are writing scripts and exporters while a stable new version isn't there yet. If you dropped just in here, it can be confusing, but most threads here are more about possebilities, than actual code...
For real working stuff, goto the 63beta4 thread for indigo v. 0.6 and the "Indigo 0.7t2 exporter here!" thread for the beta test version of indigo v. 0.7
Greetings from nighttime Amsterdam,
Jan
oh, i am having no problems with the exporter for 07 that i am using, i would just like to see new features added more efficiently. i would not like two coders to be coding seperatly there own versions of the script nor would i like multiple coders to be inadvertently working on the same feature of the code.
one of the things that has made blender such a successfull open source program is the massive amounts of people who help develop it. none of that would be possible without massive amounts of cvs organisation.
i think it would be practicle to perform an attempt at begining the organisation of the blender 2 indigo coding system, even before the official 07 release is out. That way, the coders will be more ready and able to update the script in the event of a sudden change in format.
one of the things that has made blender such a successfull open source program is the massive amounts of people who help develop it. none of that would be possible without massive amounts of cvs organisation.
i think it would be practicle to perform an attempt at begining the organisation of the blender 2 indigo coding system, even before the official 07 release is out. That way, the coders will be more ready and able to update the script in the event of a sudden change in format.
a shiny monkey is a happy monkey
ok, so i guess the problem isnt all just in my head. i never realy had any trouble learning indigo's xml, its realy well organized for a 3d render engine input format. i have played around with so many other formats including but not limited to, kerkythea's, sunflow, gelato, yafray, and more. Indigo's was the easiest to get the hang of.
then the first order of buisseness i guess would be to figure out who is currently working on the exporter
PLEASE, if you are currently working on the blender exporter, post here, even if you do not plan on releasing the code
then the first order of buisseness i guess would be to figure out who is currently working on the exporter
PLEASE, if you are currently working on the blender exporter, post here, even if you do not plan on releasing the code
a shiny monkey is a happy monkey
this is true, however i do not offer a method for version control or preventing exploration, but a way to organize an official version of the script that takes into acount the best exploration that everybody has done. no one head is smater than all the heads.This is not a recipe for collaboration or version control and there is no formal need to make docs either because no central repository exists.
No one can really buy into the process or take reponsibility for it like this.
On the other hand because blender and indigo are fast evolving it might be a mistake to prevent people exploring various approaches...
it is not possible to hide the code of the blender script as blender code is not compiled. all i am saying is that anybody who does work on the script, should put it up here, and the best aspects of there work should be put into an "official" version of the script
a shiny monkey is a happy monkey
What I think is a wiki will be the best for the average joe, and I'm his friend so I know what's best for Joe 
We need to centralize information.
That wiki is of primal importance for Joe, if Joe want to get how the hell Indigo works that's the place for Joe*. As for devellopers, we need to fix now that issue regarding who claims ownership for an exporter, and what can be done for them, then let the others work together as a team. Regarding version control... well, I have no clue
* I was thinking to create a simple thread to centralize the maximum of informations regarding 0.7t2, I at least need such place.
We need to centralize information.
A test version is a test version, "nick" stated he was "bored just bugfixing and not releasing anything", he said. If "nick" want you as a project manager he'll get in touch I bet.Big Fan wrote:If nick wants to have many people pick up on indigo not just cg techies he is going to have to take up some project management tasks as well (or get someone to handle it) and ensure that there is a properly working version with accompanying exporter and notes.Otherwise he may as well stop promoting it to the public with a website until version 1.0 is here
That wiki is of primal importance for Joe, if Joe want to get how the hell Indigo works that's the place for Joe*. As for devellopers, we need to fix now that issue regarding who claims ownership for an exporter, and what can be done for them, then let the others work together as a team. Regarding version control... well, I have no clue
* I was thinking to create a simple thread to centralize the maximum of informations regarding 0.7t2, I at least need such place.
Hi all,
i'am one of the free coders of the blender exporter, and i think it's true that development organisation could be better than it's now 
Up to now we have a official v0.6 exporter on blender-wiki and an improved v0.6 exporter here in forum that seems to be ready to be official latest version and could find his place somewhere in a download section
Sometimes it would be better to have a hidden developper-thread here, not that blender-users get to much confussed by new tests and ideas
All user that reads this forums have to know that they're up in the first line... sitting/reading directly in the development discussion
If development gets organissed, then user will have to sit back in the second line and wait for official releases
I'm not sure what's the best way here
i'am one of the free coders
of the blender exporter, and i think it's true that development organisation could be better than it's now Up to now we have a official v0.6 exporter on blender-wiki and an improved v0.6 exporter here in forum that seems to be ready to be official latest version and could find his place somewhere in a download section
Sometimes it would be better to have a hidden developper-thread here, not that blender-users get to much confussed by new tests and ideas
All user that reads this forums have to know that they're up in the first line... sitting/reading directly in the development discussion
If development gets organissed, then user will have to sit back in the second line and wait for official releases
I'm not sure what's the best way here
a usable script or blender build, (maybe intigrated like yafray eventualywhat form should a blender to indigo exporter take ultimately?
)the official script should be done, betta should have a naming system to desipher wheather they are compilation of everybody's work or experimentationhow often should it be updated and how complete should it be?
hopefully anybody who can. and is interestedwho will do the work and why?
where are we in the development and what structure/order is appropriate?
to provide efficent access and update of the script when necessary, to establish an official build when needed for indigo 07, and to incorperate all the good ideas but unnoficial into an official build
a yellow one with stripesunder what umbrella should the blender exporter be?
no. but it should be presented to the public in such a way that allows average people to understand what is going on (not the subject of this forum post)should latest development be hidden from public until a suitable script is ready?
NO such thing if a proper development structure is established.how many people contributing is too many?
yes, but with a proper development structure we can figure out if the code should be completely recoded and stuff like thatcan we over do refining something now when indigo 1.0 could be years away?
there is no question in my mind if development should be organized. the point of this thread was to ask if there was any organisation and if not, discuss ways of establishing organisation. the first thing that i learned when i learned to code was that the best code was an organised one. i beleive that this follows not only for the script, but also how its written. i beleive everything should be organised. Even nature has organisation!
as for how the code and development should be presented to the public, we can discuss that after we have a development structure to hide.
wiki would be wonderfull by the way
a shiny monkey is a happy monkey
Before I find myself busy today I thought I would pop in quick and talk a little about this...
I just want to say how I feel about this. (picture me saying this in a friendly, easy-going tone, and not angry/mean/degrading/ or disrespectful to anyone or anyone's opinion or views) please take this lightly and don't get offended.
As it stands, the exporter is GPL, and also so is Blender. But Indigo is not, and I am not starting anything when I say this. I do not want to start any trouble here, I was a reader of the forum for long enough to hear the discussions about this.
I hope for organization with the exporters. I have said since I first started posting that I would like to be on a team. I have also said I am not a pro at ingido, blender, or python. I don't feel like I could code any part of the script from ground up. I am not here to prove anything. However, as it stands when I picked it up at 6t6b1 off the wiki, I do think I have improved it to work with indigo 07. It is not perfect, but it allows for much less hand editing of xml files.
Indigo 07 is a test release, and also so is the script, and so it is very confusing and buggy. It comes with the name, and you can't overlook this. Two test programs working together spell trouble no matter what way you look at it. Mainly not only because of bugs, but lack of documentation, since it is a test release, things can change often and it would be a waste of time to start documenting unless features were already froze.
Next, as the triangle of love is not fully GPL, I'm sure there has to be capable people out there that would help, but are unwilling to work on something that can change at any time. Yes it was discussed in the forum, but I was one of the people that did not want to come on board.
Why? Well because I have worked on many projects in the past that go in directions where I don't agree with anymore and therefore stop contributing. And then it feels to me like the entire journey was a waste of time and effort. I do this as a hobby, I use blender, play with indigo, and do what I can with the exporter in my free time as something to do. I enjoy doing it. I am glad I decided to register here and start some code. But the feeling is still in my stomach. How long will it last? Will other exporter/maintainers stick around? Where are we headed?
I get the feeling that the exporter is supposed to be working all right and bug free along with easy to use, and I just don't think it can happen with the situation as it is. There and some authors on the blender exporter I haven't seen in a while or ever. I can only assume they moved on or got busy with something else, or maybe they contributed all they can. No doubt it will happen to me too. Yes the exporter is a mess to learn, especially if you try the 07 version. But in order to make a gui and make it easy to learn, with documentation, you add on huge amounts of time it takes to do this. Time that most people, like me, do not have. I'd love to make a gui and make all the material settings have their own menus and only buttons that you need will be there. Along with tooltips and manuals. But that sounds almost like an open source project in itself. One that rotates around a non-open source project.
But you can't expect the exporter maintainers to fix up all the holes, some old and some new, in a timely manner or at all. We do it because we like to, we do it to pass the free time that some of us get now and then, and we do it because we like to help other people.
It is not an open source project, and therefore doesn't have the organization and the community behind it. It is unfair to compare the two categories. Just a few folks like me willing to help out. Please enjoy it for what it is.
The best thing to do is if you find yourself lost and confused, enjoy using indigo 06 and its exporter. It is much easier to work with and use. Let 07 mature before you try it again.
I respect the community here...I am hoping to get organized and would be delighted to see it happen.
Please, before you answer me, remember what I said in the starting of my post. These are my views, my opinions, they are not meant to attack anyone, or refer to anyone in any disrespectful manner. I am sorry to anyone that may have been offended.
I just want to say how I feel about this. (picture me saying this in a friendly, easy-going tone, and not angry/mean/degrading/ or disrespectful to anyone or anyone's opinion or views) please take this lightly and don't get offended.
As it stands, the exporter is GPL, and also so is Blender. But Indigo is not, and I am not starting anything when I say this. I do not want to start any trouble here, I was a reader of the forum for long enough to hear the discussions about this.
I hope for organization with the exporters. I have said since I first started posting that I would like to be on a team. I have also said I am not a pro at ingido, blender, or python. I don't feel like I could code any part of the script from ground up. I am not here to prove anything. However, as it stands when I picked it up at 6t6b1 off the wiki, I do think I have improved it to work with indigo 07. It is not perfect, but it allows for much less hand editing of xml files.
Indigo 07 is a test release, and also so is the script, and so it is very confusing and buggy. It comes with the name, and you can't overlook this. Two test programs working together spell trouble no matter what way you look at it. Mainly not only because of bugs, but lack of documentation, since it is a test release, things can change often and it would be a waste of time to start documenting unless features were already froze.
Next, as the triangle of love is not fully GPL, I'm sure there has to be capable people out there that would help, but are unwilling to work on something that can change at any time. Yes it was discussed in the forum, but I was one of the people that did not want to come on board.
Why? Well because I have worked on many projects in the past that go in directions where I don't agree with anymore and therefore stop contributing. And then it feels to me like the entire journey was a waste of time and effort. I do this as a hobby, I use blender, play with indigo, and do what I can with the exporter in my free time as something to do. I enjoy doing it. I am glad I decided to register here and start some code. But the feeling is still in my stomach. How long will it last? Will other exporter/maintainers stick around? Where are we headed?
I get the feeling that the exporter is supposed to be working all right and bug free along with easy to use, and I just don't think it can happen with the situation as it is. There and some authors on the blender exporter I haven't seen in a while or ever. I can only assume they moved on or got busy with something else, or maybe they contributed all they can. No doubt it will happen to me too. Yes the exporter is a mess to learn, especially if you try the 07 version. But in order to make a gui and make it easy to learn, with documentation, you add on huge amounts of time it takes to do this. Time that most people, like me, do not have. I'd love to make a gui and make all the material settings have their own menus and only buttons that you need will be there. Along with tooltips and manuals. But that sounds almost like an open source project in itself. One that rotates around a non-open source project.
But you can't expect the exporter maintainers to fix up all the holes, some old and some new, in a timely manner or at all. We do it because we like to, we do it to pass the free time that some of us get now and then, and we do it because we like to help other people.
It is not an open source project, and therefore doesn't have the organization and the community behind it. It is unfair to compare the two categories. Just a few folks like me willing to help out. Please enjoy it for what it is.
The best thing to do is if you find yourself lost and confused, enjoy using indigo 06 and its exporter. It is much easier to work with and use. Let 07 mature before you try it again.
I respect the community here...I am hoping to get organized and would be delighted to see it happen.
Please, before you answer me, remember what I said in the starting of my post. These are my views, my opinions, they are not meant to attack anyone, or refer to anyone in any disrespectful manner. I am sorry to anyone that may have been offended.
Content contained in my posts is for informational purposes only and is used at your own risk.
So, i think I am a "python script hacker" then and currently working on a indigo material editor inside blender, written in python.
This GUI could be added to any exporter-version by copy/paste (to finaly only have to distribute one single file) with some very small additions in the original event-loop and draw-routine.
So, I don't work on the exporter itself, i just code some additional GUI that can be added to current exporter script soon.
Here some previews:
c&c very welcome...
regards zuegs
and currently working on a indigo material editor inside blender, written in python.This GUI could be added to any exporter-version by copy/paste (to finaly only have to distribute one single file) with some very small additions in the original event-loop and draw-routine.
So, I don't work on the exporter itself, i just code some additional GUI that can be added to current exporter script soon.
Here some previews:
c&c very welcome...
regards zuegs
the formation of a method of organization is not an attempt at maturing the script before 07 is out, perhaps the organization will make the betta system less developed and more organized. Starting an "official" method of organization thread in the community is not an attempt to replace what is going on currently, but offer a place and a way for what is going on currently to converge and form something meaningfull when the time is right for it to happen. if you do not feel like participating in this thread and helping with the method and rather coming out with your own exporter or seperate thread you can do that. but for thoes who would like to create the exporter together, post here.
a shiny monkey is a happy monkey
As a simple "class 5" user, I would be sad if devellopment was to be hidden... people has just to know what 'test" means, or call it "unstable" or "wip"...
In any case class 6 users will take what is given for "stable", but class 5 users (the ones who can't code in python) may give some hints sometimes, user/artist-friendly wise... or feel isolated, so please don't go hidden, devs !
hopefully some day I'll be a python "hacker", as now Python is integrated into Maya...
In any case class 6 users will take what is given for "stable", but class 5 users (the ones who can't code in python) may give some hints sometimes, user/artist-friendly wise... or feel isolated, so please don't go hidden, devs !
hopefully some day I'll be a python "hacker", as now Python is integrated into Maya...
Hi all,
the discussion is interesting!
@ oodmb
Thanks for beginning this discussion!
@ Big Fan:
Thanks for this explaination how to qualify coders.
I do not know how to qualify myself:
This can or perhaps could be between 5 or 3, but this is not the problem for me!
I just want to give my opinion now on all the people involving here:
Yes, in my opinion we should improve the collaboration in the developpment!
But please do not speed to much!
I do not have all the day to code or to learn something new, and this means:
If you change everything on cvs or subversion or wikipedia tomorrow, I will not be able to play with you!
This will be the end for me, and I will not give my modifications back!!!
In my opinion, like people said before, it is to open a Blender developper forum.
I a mnot sure that the productivity of the developpment will increase with cvs or subversion.
We are talking here about a code which has only 1300 lines.
Look at the great job done by wedge!
Thanks wedge!
The first page is great, all changes are commented, and I find such a way good to begin hacking with python.
(Yes, perhaps this is not professionnal, but it helps me more than subversion or cvs, sorry)
I am finish now, this was just my opinion, you can do what you want with it
Regards, Phil
the discussion is interesting!
@ oodmb
Thanks for beginning this discussion!
@ Big Fan:
Thanks for this explaination how to qualify coders.
I do not know how to qualify myself:
This can or perhaps could be between 5 or 3, but this is not the problem for me!
I just want to give my opinion now on all the people involving here:
Yes, in my opinion we should improve the collaboration in the developpment!
But please do not speed to much!
I do not have all the day to code or to learn something new, and this means:
If you change everything on cvs or subversion or wikipedia tomorrow, I will not be able to play with you!
This will be the end for me, and I will not give my modifications back!!!
In my opinion, like people said before, it is to open a Blender developper forum.
I a mnot sure that the productivity of the developpment will increase with cvs or subversion.
We are talking here about a code which has only 1300 lines.
Look at the great job done by wedge!
Thanks wedge!
The first page is great, all changes are commented, and I find such a way good to begin hacking with python.
(Yes, perhaps this is not professionnal, but it helps me more than subversion or cvs, sorry)
I am finish now, this was just my opinion, you can do what you want with it
Regards, Phil
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