How to reduce export time?

General questions about Indigo, the scene format, rendering etc...
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neo0.
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How to reduce export time?

Post by neo0. » Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:49 pm

This is something pretty obvious and I would be surprised if it hasn't been brought up before, but does indigo currently only export what is in front of the camera? Obviously, you would have to worry about what should be reflecting/refracting and whatnot but maybe indigo can look at your scene, and decide if it's okay to skip loading certain things.

rendigo
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Re: How to reduce export time?

Post by rendigo » Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:58 pm

neo0. wrote:This is something pretty obvious and I would be surprised if it hasn't been brought up before, but does indigo currently only export what is in front of the camera? Obviously, you would have to worry about what should be reflecting/refracting and whatnot but maybe indigo can look at your scene, and decide if it's okay to skip loading certain things.
In my opinion this would require an extremly sophisticated algorithm, actually I am pretty sure there is no general approach to achieve 'rules' that could possibly determine which objecs are needed and what can be discarded.
Being in the visualization business since the early nineties I have thought about his quite often in the past. It would have been worthwhile back then when a regular renderstation had a 33Mhz CPU and 4MB RAM :wink:
The only idea I ever came up with was dividing my scene manually in 'zones' (in my case mostly rooms) and grouping them before export. With a decent layer managment and a rough idea about the wanted results (images/perspectives) I was able to handle quite big scenes. Handing this taks over to some progam logic would involve heavy usage of additional attributs (xml would allow for this I guess) and a program which 'understands' what each attribute means in terms of visibility/effect on your scene.
If someone has a better idea I would really like to hear it since Neo's question has quite some relevance in 'the real world'!
The only feature I am using alot (in SKIndigo) is instancing - it can help tremendously. Unfortunatly I have not quite figured out what restrictions there are. Nested instances don't always work as I expect so I end up getting 1GB igmesh files anyway :oops:

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SaphireS
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Re: How to reduce export time?

Post by SaphireS » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:03 pm

I guess most of the time such an algorithm would take more time to calculate what should be exported,
than the actual export of the unecessary objects would take.
Except it is an extremely well thought out algorithm, but hen again I would like glaretech to focus on more important areas of Indigo that need treatment.
The best way atm is to use layers, your brain, etc.
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Zom-B
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Re: How to reduce export time?

Post by Zom-B » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:52 am

if the exporter don't use c++ exportcode, but slower internal stuff, export time might be an issue.
recoding Export Routine would be here the more needed area where to put manpower into!

Until then maybe some sort of "export materials only and start Indigo" feature would be nice.
For Poly heavy scenes where the user is at a point of tweaking materials lights etc. this could speed up workflow alot!

Cindigo once has this feature... simple checkbox "don't export meshes"
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Whaat
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Re: How to reduce export time?

Post by Whaat » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:05 am

Zom-B wrote: Cindigo once has this feature... simple checkbox "don't export meshes"
SkIndigo has the feature too, called 'Quick Export'.

Converting export meshes to IGMESH format is on my TODO list. It will improve speed a bit.

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CTZn
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Re: How to reduce export time?

Post by CTZn » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:12 am

I don't see how neo0.'s idea could be a serious argument for an unbiased renderer, rendigo approach is the best.

In other words: it's you placing the camera, it's up to you to remove/hide the objects you want. I think that hidden meshes/geometry layers should simply not export, keep the scene tidy then.

If it's for a still it's not so much of a problem (do not model those nasty geometries or hide them), if that's for animation the idea would fail totally because objects would suddently cease to reflect light behind the camera and that would be noticeable, even in a biased render featuring GI.

neo0., there is one simple rule, three syllabs:

no bi-as

Meh where's my backwall !? Ship hull damaged, 80% of crew 3 was killed and sunburn destroyed hydroponic stations 16 and 18 etc... See, bias IS dangerous.

Try to integrate this constraint in you requests please :)
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Re: How to reduce export time?

Post by Soup » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:40 am

Quick-export is a great feature, if you don't understand it, it's in the manual.

As for what you are suggesting, there are renderers out there that do lots and lots and lots of culling (Renderman for example with REYES) but the problem is that real reflections require much more 'geometry' than is visible at any one given time. Imagine a mirror reflecting everything behind you - culling anything off camera would cause the mirror to reflect nothing.

So it's up to the user to manage their scenes. Learn layers, for export optimization. And Exit portals to avoid simulating light anywhere other than the desired location.

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