What going to happen to us?

General questions about Indigo, the scene format, rendering etc...
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carbon
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by carbon » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:48 pm

WytRaven wrote:The price is high, but not high compared to other commercial offerings in the same business space.
just for accuracy, the price is almost as high as "other commercial offerings" if you have a small farm with 4 and more machines while provided usability (i don't mean image quality) is on much lower level "compared to other commercial offerings".

c.

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2kemon
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by 2kemon » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:00 pm

I'm on the same page as stinkie. I can't feel to bad about Ono and Benn or whoever making some money on this great product. If people don´t think it's worth paying for, I am sure they will find a free alternative.

Since I'm a student, I'm wondering about two things, before I will even consider investing. Will "Glare" hire the people who programmed the exporters? In my case, I would never have looked twice at indigo, if it was not for whaats skindigo exporter.
After all, these exporters are an integral part of indigos usability and were made on a voluntary basis, or have I misunderstood something?

And secondly; will there be a student license, or should I bite the half price offer, since I´ll probably graduate someday. Because then I need to live of oat meal the next year. :shock:

Big Fan
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by Big Fan » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:06 pm

@WytRaven ...despite what I might think about your graceless conduct I dont tell you to bugger off..Ive read your opinions though...thanks

yes I have donated, actually several hundred $US, but thats really beside the point

the point is that Ono has changed his rules after telling everyone that it was free
only an idiot would construe the new deal to be consistant with that

while I bear Ono no grudge for wanting a return on his invested time this is more like under arm bowling than cricket
I doubted this venture would work as planned and that has proven to be the case
I am pleased I stopped contributing when I did
Way back at the beginning some people never got started entirely because of the dubious nature of the use agreement

I seem to remember taking a bit of flack for saying Indigo would go commercial in the past, indeed someone spammed me here only recently with facts about Ono being a one man band...need I say more

Ono doesnt owe me anything, this is his code and it makes good renders, but I think he does owe the long time community an explanation and in his own words, not relayed by Mr 6% shareholding or anyone else including you.

If it is indeed the case that he wants to change things because the SDK wasnt bringing in the $ how about he fronts up to the community and says so.
I appreciate not every business venture pans out the way it is desired and that there will be mistakes and I dont think people will be unsympathetic but really I think it would be decent of him to confess his changed position given the support he got from a lot of people, people who were here well before you were..and even before me

edit: and just so you understand my position completely rather than mouth off about it I am not a Lux user and nor am I involved in its development or any exporter for it

@fused
no you are not an employee of or partner in Glare Technologies
I will require the company to remove my historic contributions copied over to this website in due course but thats for them to do.

cheers
Last edited by Big Fan on Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:00 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Meelis
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by Meelis » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:07 pm

595€ is a hi price for hobby. But hardware is more expensive. :)
I hope that integration for blendigo doesn't suffer. I dont want to lose my hobby / work / time.

:D

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SATtva_
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by SATtva_ » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:47 pm

I'm curious, 295/595€ is a per-CPU or a per-subject license?

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PureSpider
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by PureSpider » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:18 pm

*starts to sing*
Old MacOno had a forum
Ee i ee i o
And on his forum he had some users
Ee i ee i o
With a rant-rant here
And a rant-rant there
Here a rant, there a rant
Everywhere a rant-rant
Old MacOno had a forum
Ee i ee i o

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u3dreal
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by u3dreal » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:38 pm

Hey guys

Guess only guys who have been treated bad can understand the situation.

Those just shouting just shout.

I'm happy i decided to keep my Max Exporter and get off indigo.

Maybe some of you guys don't see that the ppl complaining are
actually the ppl that made it possible you use indigo now.

A renderer is nothin' without a community supporting it and of course
an exporter.

Who would bother writing xml files ....


Ah yes and what does "lifelong" mean in the context of "indigo will be free"

We will see ;)

regards

u3dreal ;)
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3DSMax/Blender -> Indigo website:http://r3ndr.com
My Indigo Gallery !

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OnoSendai
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by OnoSendai » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:49 pm

Hi All,
Yes, it's true, Indigo is going commercial. I realise that for some of you it seems like I'm going back on my word. At the risk of getting bogged down in linguistic detail, I never promised that Indigo would always be free; I said that I hoped Indigo will be free for the foreseeable future. While I have always had high hopes for Indigo, I never thought that it would become as popular as it has. I have have been developing Indigo for 5 years now, and while I love and appreciate the support and community that has grown up around it, I also need to earn a living wage. Indigo has been my sole occupation for nearly 2 years now, and I have reached the point where I simply cannot continue developing Indigo at the current level without going commercial.

There is likely to be a half price student rate; we will confirm this soon.

We also understand that the exporters are a crucial part of the workflow and overall experience. We will be working with the plugin authors in the future - we're currently sorting out an agreement.

Thanks for your support over the years,
Nik

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Kram1032
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by Kram1032 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:14 am

hmmm... no idea what I should think about that.

Just one thing: 0.7MPx is rather low... could we atleast have 0.786432? That'd be a resolution of 1024*768 at highest limits... Too low for efficient comercial use but I guess, in most cases enough for hobbyists.

btw: shiftlens to boost resolution also has one major disadvantage: shifted parts are rendered (physically correctly) with increased vignetting... It'd be quite a lot of work to fix that for an extremely big image if you don't want to shift each additional pixel of resolution in a seperate step...

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suvakas
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by suvakas » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:27 am

u3dreal wrote:Hey guys

Guess only guys who have been treated bad can understand the situation.

Those just shouting just shout.

I'm happy i decided to keep my Max Exporter and get off indigo.
...
Hey
Long time no see. :wink:
Interesting to read such words from you now. Do you remember why you left ?
No offence, but wasn't it you who wanted to start collecting money for the exporter? I think you were the first person who wanted to do so. Talked about losing your job and etc. And now you are criticiseing Ono for wanting to do the same? Just a bit hypocrite, isn't it?

I actually have to say thank you for leaving. I learned to code maxscript because of that :wink:

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PureSpider
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by PureSpider » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:07 am

pwnd!

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tungee
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by tungee » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:11 am

Right suvakas.

Ono, you dont need to excuse for nothing.

We all have had 5 years of Joy with Indigo (commercial and hobby).
For me, i have earned some bucks with Indigo. Thats the reality!
So why should you not earn money with your own baby.
Most of the people has earned money with it; you also radiance.
If you say we were human guinea pigs for indigo, its not the truth.
We all had advantages from Indigo!
The 1.1.8 is free and robust. Download it.
But if you want more then buy it!
295€ for a lifetime maintaince is really not bad for 5 years of joy, or?
Ono were here in germany in a fat financial crisis; i cant afford it now.
How long is your offer active? I think it will took some time when i could buy it.

But when i should buy Indigo, i hope the Exporter-writers get also their bucks.
Because without an exporter, indigo is like a bird without Wings, like an Kiwi(:
Music has the right to children!

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WytRaven
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by WytRaven » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:19 am

Big Fan wrote:despite what I might think about your graceless conduct I dont tell you to bugger off..Ive read your opinions though...thanks
If by "graceless" you mean bluntly effective then the compliment is accepted, thanks. :)

You and I will forever butt heads for as long as we are both here Big Fan. I personally don't mind that. It's nice to have someone that gets under your skin every once in a while to fire you up a bit and remind you you're alive.
Big Fan wrote:yes I have donated, actually several hundred $US, but thats really beside the point
Well then you have contributed more than most as you have also provided an exporter...and then removed it...and the provided it...and then removed it...and then....

Just because you annoy the crap out of me with your incessant whining here doesn't mean I don't acknowledge your contributions.
Big Fan wrote:the point is that Ono has changed his rules after telling everyone that it was free
only an idiot would construe the new deal to be consistant with that
*cue violins* Sounds like you made an assumption and you know that saying about assumption right?...
Big Fan wrote:I seem to remember taking a bit of flack for saying Indigo would go commercial in the past, indeed someone spammed me here only recently with facts about Ono being a one man band...need I say more
In which case you should have been well prepared for this eventuality...so why are you whining about it now??
Big Fan wrote:not relayed by Mr 6% shareholding or anyone else including you.
I didn't relay anything. As stated above it was a post containing nothing but my own opinion.
Big Fan wrote:I think it would be decent of him to confess his changed position given the support he got from a lot of people, people who were here well before you were..and even before me
Confess? I wasn't aware that he had lied or is lying now. The indigo website states that indigo is free for non commercial use which as of right now with what can be downloaded for use is 100% correct. It does not state that indigo will always be free.

Who cares how long anyone has been here? It is irrelevant.
Big Fan wrote:edit: and just so you understand my position completely rather than mouth off about it I am not a Lux user and nor am I involved in its development or any exporter for it
I suggested lux as a solution for those that have a problem with paying for someone's hard work. As for saying bugger off? Well that term seemed appropriate to get across the idea of "cease whining about indigo not being free any more and go join another community for a similar tool that is". My referring to you as Radiance' henchman is simply due to the similarity of tone and drive that I get from you both. You both project an odd vibe that suggests you think you are entitled to a piece of the indigo pie (let me ask, did either of you receive requests to perform a task in exchange for money or did you offer a service of your own volition? I think the distinction is very important don't you?)

I guess I had better take off the rant hat and step down from the soap box or Pure Spider might start singing again ;)

Edit:
tungee wrote:Because without an exporter, indigo is like a bird without Wings, like an Kiwi(:
Ok that just made me roar with laughter. The broken English just made it all the more hilarious, thx tungee. Despite the humour of the delivery the sentiment is also sound :lol:
:idea: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds..." - Emerson 1841

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CTZn
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by CTZn » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:36 am

Precisely WytRaven ! I think people get here what they worked for, in accordance with their behaviour/constance.

Why to complain when you left by yourselves ? Maybe because now, there is no way back... that was about time !

This is all sterile, facts won't change for that matter. But if you need it for your mental health, go on with ranting.

edit:
I guess I had better take off the rant hat and step down from the soap box or Pure Spider might start singing again :)
That would be right I think, it is very energy consuming (but not so complex) to pin BF down and that helps him spreading "odd vibes" out (his real job here for years), I had my experiences on that and won't give it as much importance as you did anymore.

Like fused said, BF remains BF :roll:
obsolete asset

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SmartDen
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Re: What going to happen to us?

Post by SmartDen » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:24 am

just don't talk with the old man :wink:
Check normals, dude!

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