Would NeatImage Indigo Profile work ? EDIT: Profile inside!

General questions about Indigo, the scene format, rendering etc...
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Zom-B
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Post by Zom-B » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:21 am

u3dreal wrote:about how long did you render that scene ?

just to get an idea of how much noise was left..
Will try that right away.. :D
I just rendered for 20minutes,it still seems that Neat Image couldn't do
a Noise Profile by it self!!!
I have to do it by hand... at this point the Profile works fine, but I will try
to get a better Profile in the future, after learning more about the NI Profile generation!

I also recognized that Indigo's color corection seems not to be OK, the RGB values are not the same :?:

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u3dreal
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Post by u3dreal » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:30 am

You have any info on how to do a correct noiseprofile in NI ?

Would be handy.. so i don't have to start experimenting again..

cheers

u3dreal ;)

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Post by Zom-B » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:35 am

u3dreal wrote:You have any info on how to do a correct noiseprofile in NI ?
Sorry Dude, I just di it by "Try & Error", I even havn't googel for some advice :roll:
Therefor I have to try to optimize the Profile in the Future ;)

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u3dreal
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Post by u3dreal » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:00 am

Okie will post my expirinces.. :D

cheers

u3dreal ;)

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Post by Zom-B » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:17 pm

Hey u3dreal...

I read the manual for doing a Noise Profile with a "Calibration Target" Picture.
So I set up an such Rendering, with the image and run some Tests...

Image

After a lot of testing with longer or shorter rendering Times I found out,
that the longer you renderi the CT, the Better the AutoProfiel will be
(means better Numbers in the Noieser Profile Viewer)

But in Real Life testing, this new "über Profiles" loose against the first one I did :!: :idea: :?:
My first Profile simply kills more Noise, and keeps more detail!!!

I tested the Profiles mostly with radiance IT Department, because for such
"nearly Perfect" Renderings NI does great work.

I also found out, that after loading the indigo Noise Profile you should NOT do a "Auto fine tune" or a "auto Complete" !

So have fun with this Profile, a call it Final now, until somebody who knows better about NI does a better Profile

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u3dreal
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Post by u3dreal » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:48 pm

Hi Zom-B,

i tried yesterday but couldn't get a clue of NI .. i use version 3.0 ..

Also i couldn't get any noise in the image with a pure white plane.. :rol:
I didn't find out how to make your own profile.
Will have to investigate more.

Any suggestions.. maybe i have to use other version ..?

cheers

u3dreal ;)

EDIT Hey with the target it looks much better .. i get some noise :D

Ok I found out how to do the profile .. now to try and error..

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Post by Zom-B » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:00 am

u3dreal wrote:.. i use version 3.0 ..
Yeah this is some old pice of Software on your drive :lol:
Check if you could update your Version to 5.x for free, or try to use the NI Demo
for building a Noise Profile that is compatible to 5.x NI...

I just used THIS Manual to generate a Profile, but by using my first "white Plane" Script I get better results in RL Testing!

Also if you use it, use the BW Calibartion Target image, because unbaised Renders don't have problems with special colors (like digicams often have)!

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u3dreal
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Post by u3dreal » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:43 am

Ah OK 5.0 :lol:

i'll check that ..

u3dreal ;)

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he he...

Post by Zom-B » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:45 am

...even v5.5 :wink:

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boweeb007
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Post by boweeb007 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:00 am

Just a friendly side note. The expression is "trial and error". Was that German you posted earlier?

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Post by Zom-B » Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:10 am

boweeb007 wrote:Just a friendly side note. The expression is "trial and error".
Was that German you posted earlier?
he he... thank you! yes this was german...
Some people shure recognized that english isn't my native language :lol:
my gramathic in special isn't worth the name, but I'll keep bother you guys
until nick kicks me :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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F.ip2
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Post by F.ip2 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:12 am

I agree with the shared rendering approach.

It just makes sense to refine later more noise areas.
The nosie is for product shots still an issue. Well in
photography noise is rather a nice element. I actualy went
back and do not use any noise reduction in my BW shoots
because the digital mastered images just look to perfect.

But for some degree I would love to see Indigo with a less noise
result depending on the project.


howmany of the coders of indigo are from Germany?
--
C l a a s E i c k e K u h n e n
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Assistant Professor Industrial Design
Kendall College of Art and Design
of Ferris State University

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Zom-B
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Post by Zom-B » Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:33 pm

F.ip2 wrote:howmany of the coders of indigo are from Germany?
Hey F.ip2...

Indigo is a "one man Army" coding war, taking place somewhere Wellington, New Zealand!
Nicholas Chapman aka Ono-Sendai is the Code Monkey, wo delivered us this nice piece oft software :D

However, there are more People working indirectly on Indigo, like on Exporters
for different 3D Programms or on GUI's to edit Indigos xml files easily,
or simply helping debugging, support with nice ideas or spreading the "indigo fever" over the Internet :wink:

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Post by IanT » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:18 am

Zom-B wrote:
mzungu wrote:Zom, I think something like this would be a great advantage! (http://www.neatimage.com/ is the link, for those like me who didn't know what he was talking about.) A little googling turned up "Filters" (http://filters.sourceforge.net/), a free library that perhaps Nick could link directly in to from Indigo... ? :wink: (Better may be those working on a GUI...)
yeah would be realy cool to see something like that interatable into GUI's done by some Members!
BTW: is anybody working on a GUI atm???
mzungu wrote:Another thot, and I know this means shifting Indigo in the "biased" direction, but it'd be great if there were a noise "detector" that could be set to scan after a certain period of time, and based on its results, Indigo would then concentrate its refinements on those portions of the image that have higher noise levels. Been discussed before, I know... Not the desired direction for a true MLT app, I know... I just hate seeing those CPU cycles used up on refining areas of an image that don't really need any more refining, from a visual standpoint. Maybe as an option?
What a wounderfull Idea!!! Some kind of "inteligance" where to use the CPU Time best would be very very very nice!
Strangely enough, I've just implemented something exactly like this in my own renderer (Java-based), along with a geometry-aware noise filter (not working with progressive rendering yet but it will soon). Radiance has already asked me to post details of the latter on here but as it's not ready yet, I'll post up details/results of the former in case Nick wants to implement something similar or take some of the ideas.

I also have been extremely frustrated when 20% of my CPU is used to render a v. bright portion of the image that doesn't change even slightly (i.e. after colour clipping/gamma correction) after the very first pass.

Ian.

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Post by Zom-B » Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:24 am

IanT wrote:Radiance has already asked me to post details of the latter on here but as it's not ready yet, I'll post up details/results of the former in case Nick wants to implement something similar or take some of the ideas.
Would be very interesting if you could start a new
Thread about this when your feel ready for "public inspection"!

This kind of "image based Rendering" is very interesting,
and could speed up Indigo very much I think!

I look forward to your details/results of the former!!! :)

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