Freelance for a lifetime?

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contegufo
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Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by contegufo » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:01 am

Hi

3d images are fine but in my experience are difficult to be sold.
Without modeling € 200 for 4/6 scenes?
Years ago I proposed auto accidents in 3D. Everyone told me that things were fine but in the end no one ever called me.
Mine is a reality of the province where it is hard to fit into environments already tested, there is mistrust and fear!
An architect engineer with a small study does by itself even if the quality is low, only the major international studies (Foster, Piano, etc.) can be used to allow images.
Freelance for a lifetime?
There are hobbyists very good better than a professional but they do not work!
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snorky
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by snorky » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:32 am

contegufo wrote:Hi

3d images are fine but in my experience are difficult to be sold.
Without modeling € 200 for 4/6 scenes?
Years ago I proposed auto accidents in 3D. Everyone told me that things were fine but in the end no one ever called me.
Mine is a reality of the province where it is hard to fit into environments already tested, there is mistrust and fear!
An architect engineer with a small study does by itself even if the quality is low, only the major international studies (Foster, Piano, etc.) can be used to allow images.
Freelance for a lifetime?
There are hobbyists very good better than a professional but they do not work!
this is italy (without capital, only lowercase)

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contegufo
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by contegufo » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:18 am

Hi

€ 200 for 4/6 scenes is modestly priced but nevertheless lack the three-dimensional image culture considered only at the level of illustration.
The 3D image can be used to many things even as tissue for a 2D software, but we want an art director who knows the potential of three-dimensional graphics, and this is often lacking.
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by Zom-B » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:30 pm

Hey contegufo,

I work as a freelancer sine 2006. My experience is that Quality always sells.
Money you earn is very depending customer, but the nicer your output, the more you can charge for it.

I have two projects I can tell you about what I took for it!

For this Visualization where I needed to model all the furniture (not the clothing!) with 3 final renderings for print I charged 3560€ + Tax:
http://www.indigorenderer.com/forum/vie ... 65#p129265

This Project with 3 different scenes and 3 Renderings was charged with 3485€ + Tax:
http://www.indigorenderer.com/forum/vie ... 25#p129225

What I think mate is that you still have to go a long way to go regarding your image quality.
A good render isn't done only by using a good render engine!
Your images lack a lot in material work and you seem to be way to early happy with your output!
This may sound harsh, but better to hear this from me then from customers...

I struggle A LOT with the quality of my work, and ALWAYS have the feeling it is not good enough or could be done better. This struggle is what keeps a freelancer getting better with every job, that is my opinion at least...
polygonmanufaktur.de

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contegufo
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by contegufo » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:04 am

Hi

Congratulations, here in Italy an average salary is about € 1,300 (?) for about 40 hours a week, you'll understand that asking € 3,500 for three images is something almost impossible.
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by Zom-B » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:11 am

contegufo wrote:Congratulations, here in Italy an average salary is about € 1,300 (?) for about 40 hours a week, you'll understand that asking € 3,500 for three images is something almost impossible.
Italy has a great tradition in furniture design, there is still money in the business, but not if you don't create top notch viz!

Dude, its not paying for images only, but for the work to create them. Every customer should know that!
The scenes above took each about 2 weeks of full work until they could be rendered, this work needs to be payed!!!
Regarding that this job where even payed VERY bad...
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Silverwing
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by Silverwing » Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:56 am

I´m with Zom-B here:

You also can not compare an average Income of a employed person with freelance rates.
As a freelancer you have to have your own insurance, you have to buy the equipment and the software you work with your self, you have to pay the bill for your office and you have to bear more risks of not always having something to do or to not get payed if you are sick. Therefore your prices are definitely higher then those of a normal employed person.

There are tables on the Internet how you can calculate your pricing model for you.
What also a lot of people forget within all this that they need to actually make a profit. Its not about getting out of it even. You have to save up for bad times or for emergencies.

Within my short busyness life I learned two very important things:
Its about quality and maybe even more so its about knowing the right people.
Of course there are more aspects to it as you definitely have to know your stuff and also know the busyness side of things. How to communicate different things to the client and to negotiate wage etc.
But you have a lot less hassle if you produce quality stuff and have good connections in the business!

That are just my two cents. And I still have a long long way to go to become a better artist and business man. But everyone needs to start somewhere and with enough effort and willpower nothing is impossible!

Cheers,
Raphael
You don´t dream in cryo.

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snorky
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by snorky » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:33 pm

Italy is populated by Italians...
do you know this story? (sorry for google traslation...)
Sometimes it is wrong to judge an activity just for the time it takes realize ...
A good example is the case of the engineer and that 'was called to fix a computer very large and extremely complex ... a computer that is worth 12 million Euros.
Sitting in front of the screen, press a couple of buttons, nods his head, mutters something to himself and turn off your computer.
Then check out a small screwdriver from his pocket and 'one and a half to a tiny screw.
At this point, turn on the computer and verify that it works perfectly.
The president is very happy and offered to pay the bill immediately.
- "How much?" he asks.
- "one thousand Euros, please," says the engineer.
- "one thousand Euros?
one thousand Euros for a few minutes of work?
one thousand Euros to tighten a simple banal small screw?
I realize that your computer is worth 12 million euros, but a thousand Euros seems a really exaggerated figure.
I will pay only if you send me an itemized bill that would justify that kind of money. "
The Engineer agrees with a nod and leaves.
The morning after the president receives the bill, the law carefully, asserts the head and pay immediately, without a complaint.
The bill said:
Services performed:
- When driving a small screw: 1 EURO
- Knowing which small screw screw: EURO 999
MORAL: TO EARN EVEN FOR WHAT YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY FOR WHAT IT IS

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Zom-B
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by Zom-B » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:51 pm

Yes Snorky
Silverwing wrote:As a freelancer you have to have your own insurance, you have to buy the equipment and the software you work with your self, you have to pay the bill for your office and you have to bear more risks of not always having something to do or to not get payed if you are sick.
Not to forget that you have to care for your pension plan all by yourself!
Also this whole money gets taxed, so you can't keep it all.
By letting a expert do a job you also pay his education he went through (private school), his expertise as snorky nicely explained.
Remember that being a freelancer earning 3.5k for a job you don't automatically have work every day!

Only because you don't get such jobs its not that they are impossible and not existing, even in Italy that has a biiiiiig 3D Viz scene...
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snorky
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by snorky » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:54 am

Zom-B wrote:even in Italy that has a biiiiiig 3D Viz scene...
Are you sure??
https://www.google.it/search?site=imghp ... Iv0FRMErXc

In italy rendering is just used as dockyards' advertising and they are considered useless (omitting the field of forniture)

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contegufo
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by contegufo » Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:12 am

Hi

It 's true, and I add that almost always are of modest performance.

It is unthinkable that an architect or an engineer rests to a graphic designer to create a beautiful rendering.
It would be a rare event.
Perhaps 1,000 contacts are unable to solve something to do but you have to sow and in general after the first waste is renunciation.
Maybe in Milan but in the province you do not get nearly nothing.
This is the sad reality!
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contegufo
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by contegufo » Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:18 am

I think things will get worse with the global market and can find a chart of Calcutta for four rupees makes me a nice rendering!
I myself would watch carefully the galleries of the best rendering engine to find a good designer who may work in China or in Chile.

I believe that a selfish society reserving few opportunities to others!
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contegufo
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by contegufo » Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:28 am

Silverwing wrote:
There are tables on the Internet how you can calculate your pricing model for you.

Cheers,
Raphael
Where?
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by Zom-B » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:53 am

contegufo wrote:I think things will get worse with the global market and can find a chart of Calcutta for four rupees makes me a nice rendering!
I myself would watch carefully the galleries of the best rendering engine to find a good designer who may work in China or in Chile.

I believe that a selfish society reserving few opportunities to others!
I get 90% of my jobs from the city I live in.
The people want somebody from their area, even if they never meet you they feel closer to you,
feel saver that in the situation the shit hits the fan they can grab and shake you hard :)
Sure there is a market to outsource 3D viz to Asia, but I think you are just letting steam off here.

I had customers from America, Ireland, South Africa and England! They haven't choose me because I live in a cheap country (its Germany), but because they liked my online portfolio!
Do you even have a portfolio??!
polygonmanufaktur.de

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Tramis
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Re: Freelance for a lifetime?

Post by Tramis » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:29 am

Wow! That's nice discussion going on here :)

What are the chances to find a client in LinkedIn?

Let's say I am designer. I am a freelancer. My portfolio is great. Is it better to freelance, or open a small design studio? What would client prefer?

I'm still learning Indigo, but I have big plans to use it as my income source.

Cheers guys :)

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