scientific reports

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Re: scientific reports

Post by pixie » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:31 am

Mass = Energy that's why a photon bends! :)

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Re: scientific reports

Post by CTZn » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:36 am

Well I assume that the concept of rest mass does not apply to them but their boundaries seem to imply a compromise...
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/P ... _mass.html

Photons are admitedly massless however experience validates any mass below 10e-54 kilogram-1, or 5×10-19 eV/c2 (wikipedia).

I note that quantum gravity is another topic of debate; I did not dig it.

However let's screw the mass (would it imply a violation of the said cp symmetry ?), my interest is that photons are "objects" that exist and that we can manipulate pretty well under certain conditions nowadays. We are deemed to seek some retro-action happening from experiments at some point I believe. The dual nature of photons is of the essence in peaking into the source of quanta, entitling to myself.
Mass = Energy that's why a photon bends! :)
Its trajectory does ! However I was incorrect obviously, it's the deformation of the space-time continuum that the photon is following I think now.

Darn of a complex topic but I'm not giving up !!!
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Re: scientific reports

Post by CTZn » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:39 am

CTZn wrote:Well I assume that the concept of rest mass does not apply to them but their boundaries seem to imply a compromise...
Are such boundaries in relation with the total energy of the universe ? If that's ever making sense...
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Re: scientific reports

Post by OnoSendai » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:40 am

I don't think the concept of rest mass applies to photons, since they travel at the speed of light, so there is no reference frame in which they are at rest.

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Re: scientific reports

Post by CTZn » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:45 am

What strikes me down is that quantum mechanics are all about potentials, effectiveness belonging then to our physical realm as we used to grasp it.

I see in photons a great tool in order to draw potentials and see what is emerging out of such catalyzer, unless proven not to apply :)

Sorry about triple posting, I needed the clarification :oops:
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Re: scientific reports

Post by CTZn » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:53 am

OnoSendai wrote:I don't think the concept of rest mass applies to photons, since they travel at the speed of light, so there is no reference frame in which they are at rest.
I accept this as granted Ono. Photons are underlining the exact boundaries of the physical world, that's what is getting me excited ! They are literally sliding onto it's inner surface, and are the obvious interface.
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Re: scientific reports

Post by CTZn » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:58 am

Come on Ono, would you share some fact on photons that would make us trip and wonder ?
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Re: scientific reports

Post by OnoSendai » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:34 am

haha ok.
Well, I'm not personally sold on the concept of photons as-is. At best the concept of a photon is probably an approximation.
I think it's more likely that the apparent quantisation of the electromagnetic field is more likely 'just' quantisation of the interactions with matter. Why matter is quantised in the way it is is another question I don't know the answer to yet. (why do we not measure 1.5 electrons?)

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Re: scientific reports

Post by OnoSendai » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:40 am

To elaborate a little more with an example..
There are certain stable states of the electron surrounding a hydrogen nucleus (a proton).
Let's say the electron is in the lowest energy state. If you make it interact with the electromagnetic field just right, you can 'push' it up to the next energy state, where the electron wavefunction is on average further away from the proton (you could think of the wavefunction as a participating media density function).
These two states are always the same, for any hydrogen atom, and it always takes the same amount of energy to push the electron up to the next state from the ground state.
Despite it being a (mostly) stable state, the electron may eventually radiate away energy and fall down to the ground state.

This process some would describe as 'absorbing' and 'emitting' a photon of light. But there's nothing particularly quantised about the electromagnetic (EM) field here, rather the discrete jumps in energy come from the discrete stable states of the electron around the proton.

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Re: scientific reports

Post by Oscar J » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:25 pm

Nicely put Ono, always found these areas of physics fascinating.

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Re: scientific reports

Post by CTZn » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:15 am

Are you referring to the emitted light Ono ?

I'm not sure wether you are saying that the quantification of the EM field is irrelevant with the electron changing orbitals, or whether the photon emitted back is not bearing a "multiple of that Planck constant" payload ? (I understand the first instance, I'd be surprised about the other).

It's darn too complex and I'm lacking far too much in order to argue :( I've reviewed about a dozen articles on these topics but there are about 350 articles on Wikipedia relating with quantum physics...

Anyhow I'm asking to know more !
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Re: scientific reports

Post by CTZn » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:25 am

Perhaps we can't measure 1.5 electron because that would require the existence of 0.5 quark ?

e: Noting that we can't measure 1.5 CTZn either. It seems like the curvature (finiteness? not necessarily so, curvature being relative to benders hence localized) of space is a necessity in order to allow the existence of entities. Measuring 1.5 entity would be referenceless and plain arbitrary, even in a lobbed universe.

Isn't it so :mrgreen:

e: post edit: this rationale seems to push for quantization, at least as an own clutch. Harmonics :roll:
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Re: scientific reports

Post by CTZn » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:52 am

OnoSendai wrote:quantisation of the interactions with matter
Of matter with matter you mean ? Akin to 'friction', perhaps in relation with gravity ?
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Re: scientific reports

Post by CTZn » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:05 am

I may have been chewing on my own tail here:
It seems like the curvature [...] of space is a necessity in order to allow the existence of entities.
e: The correlation seems to point to a common cause as commonly accepted. At least am I trying hard to have my representation of the world to stick around this !

Is it okay if I create a "Magical Thought" thread instead :lol:
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Re: scientific reports

Post by CTZn » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:27 am

I'm warmly recommending this read, great insights with the use of zero mathematical term or equations. I have just read one third but it's worth it obviously. We need more of such articles.
How Quantum Pairs Stitch Space-Time
New tools may reveal how quantum information builds the structure of space.
Following the embedded links I bumped into several pages I went to earlier in this discussion, and I remembered I went through them and grasped things further. So give it a try, start reading a wikipedia article, without stopping even if you don't get what you read, and with insistence, and swapping to related articles, a sense may emerge. First grasping !

Companion article: Why Probability in Quantum Mechanics is Given by the Wave Function Squared
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