[REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut etc

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Eneen
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[REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut etc

Post by Eneen » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:27 pm

Same as in luxrender and maxwell. EXR allows storing of color profile so it will be also useful in 32bit workflow.

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Originalplan®
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by Originalplan® » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:50 pm

Indigo currently has 58 built in Camera response functions..perfectly measured in Lab.
That's plenty.....Adobe,Rec.2020, WideGamut etc....can be easily added in post.

8)

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galinette
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by galinette » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:33 pm

No, camera response functions are not related to color spaces.

The colors that are outside the sRGB gamut are lost when saving in an sRGB color space image and there is no way you can recover that in post. Many professionals need wide gamut color spaces.
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Originalplan®
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by Originalplan® » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:18 pm

galinette wrote:No, camera response functions are not related to color spaces.

The colors that are outside the sRGB gamut are lost when saving in an sRGB color space image and there is no way you can recover that in post.
Well....we talkin about saving out 32bit EXR (or TIFF) from Indigo not png in sRGB.
And if you save out an Un-tonemapped 32bit EXR than you CAN apply different color spaces to it in post.
Like you would do with print material and color settings.
galinette wrote:Many professionals need wide gamut color spaces.
Yes.They do. :)

Eneen
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by Eneen » Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:02 pm

You can apply them in post by converting from srgb to adobe, but you will loose colors outside srgb. Otherwise when you apply wide gamut profile instead of converting your color you will be unable to keep colors of pre-generated lighting like sky and tint of lights set to blackbody will be altered.

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Originalplan®
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by Originalplan® » Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:24 pm

Eneen wrote:You can apply them in post by converting from srgb to adobe, but you will loose colors outside srgb. Otherwise when you apply wide gamut profile instead of converting your color you will be unable to keep colors of pre-generated lighting like sky and temperature of lights set to blackbody will be altered.
Exactly.
But the most quality monitors on the market cover 99.9% of sRGB...that should be plenty.
Other than that sRGB is measured in P3 for 4K and up displays.
I think the bottom line is ( correct me if i'm wrong ) that as long as you can pull a 32bit linear color spaced image format from Indigo you should be able to apply other profiles to the rendered image only losing minimal amount of data.

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Oscar J
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by Oscar J » Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:33 pm

More colour spaces certainly wouldn't hurt IMO. :)

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galinette
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by galinette » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:05 am

Originalplan® wrote: Exactly.
But the most quality monitors on the market cover 99.9% of sRGB...that should be plenty.
Other than that sRGB is measured in P3 for 4K and up displays.
I think the bottom line is ( correct me if i'm wrong ) that as long as you can pull a 32bit linear color spaced image format from Indigo you should be able to apply other profiles to the rendered image only losing minimal amount of data.
640kB should be enough for everyone.

Sorry to be rude, but you do not need colors outside the sRGB gamut, that doesn't means nobody does... And I know what I'm talking about (customers requiring AdobeRGB generally pay you with one extra zero compared to those who don't know what a color space is)
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Originalplan®
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by Originalplan® » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:44 pm

galinette wrote: 640kB should be enough for everyone.

Sorry to be rude, but you do not need colors outside the sRGB gamut, that doesn't means nobody does... And I know what I'm talking about (customers requiring AdobeRGB generally pay you with one extra zero compared to those who don't know what a color space is)
Galinette never be sorry i like this discussion. :wink: ( love color )
I understand if it makes such a huge difference with specific clients.

It's not that i don't need colors outside the sRGB gamut, its just very rare that it's needed.
Both client and repo wise. Also there is only a limited selection of displays that are able to reproduce the full gamut of even sRGB.. (hope Rec. HDRI monitor panels become a thing soon on a 27" level)
So most users will have the option but won't even see the difference.

But anything that makes Indigo better is a good thing and REQ.
Just wanted to have a little discus about color and why you guys feel its important to have those specific profiles.

"640kB should be enough for everyone" < Well most people don't even calibrate their display...so. :)

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thesquirell
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by thesquirell » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:44 am

AdobeRGB would be splendid, print-wise.

FakeShamus
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by FakeShamus » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:47 am

I've requested this profiling capability in the past.
for me, it wouldn't be as much about having a wider color gamut (although that would be a benefit in many cases, too...), rather being able to fine tune the color and tone of my materials within the smaller color space of a printer, so that when I prep files to print, I am not fighting to retain detail and subtlety in areas that are out of gamut. what I would like to be able to do is have Indigo render to any profile I have installed on my system, so that I am starting from a range of colors that are all fully reproducible in my prints.

Eneen
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by Eneen » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:27 pm

@Originalplan®: I work in adobe because it's easier, my wide-gamut LCD is adobergb calibrated, I get adobergb files from camera, I send adobe file for printing and get good results. Biggest benefit is with printing, you will get more accurate light blues-greens and some oranges. For web there is no benefit as it's srgb related, but for internal workflow comparing render results to camera is easier when they are not limited. I'm not a pro by any means but there are visible benefits with one simple workflow change, so why not.

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Originalplan®
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by Originalplan® » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:16 am

Eneen wrote:@Originalplan®: I work in adobe because it's easier, my wide-gamut LCD is adobergb calibrated, I get adobergb files from camera, I send adobe file for printing and get good results. Biggest benefit is with printing, you will get more accurate light blues-greens and some oranges. For web there is no benefit as it's srgb related, but for internal workflow comparing render results to camera is easier when they are not limited. I'm not a pro by any means but there are visible benefits with one simple workflow change, so why not.
Hey Eneen. I get it, i'm not "that" against it. I'm not against it at all...if its not a big deal to implement from the dev side of things, than hell let's add more profiles even. :) ( If it is.. then it's a future proof REQ still. )

I agree printing is a plus. But from experience usually an Absolute colorimetric CMYK file does the trick in most cases from sRGB, and if remember correctly than Indigo also has a US Web Coated SWOP icc built in so saving in Tiff or EXR in higher bit should get nice results. Sure having a wider gamut is better. But than again to get that info out to paper is another thing...calibrating printers and proofing colors. Not many clients want to pay for that.. (sadly) but like galinette said if they do, it comes with an extra zero.

Having Rec. P3..etc formats for Animation would be a nice addition.
( since most likely they will get some post grading done )

So for now i'm not missing the Adobe rgb feature...maybe down the road i will not sure.
Most work i do is in C4D and since it also runs on sRGB 2.1 ( you can add other profiles but it drives down viewport performance big time ) my solution was to get accurate colors out to use measured color data if i can.
Like Pantone or specific hex,cmyk converted codes. So in that case i can proof it with a Pantone chart or printed profile. If it gets printed...and usually i get pretty good results.

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galinette
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by galinette » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:21 pm

Eneen wrote:@Originalplan®: I work in adobe because it's easier, my wide-gamut LCD is adobergb calibrated, I get adobergb files from camera, I send adobe file for printing and get good results. Biggest benefit is with printing, you will get more accurate light blues-greens and some oranges. For web there is no benefit as it's srgb related, but for internal workflow comparing render results to camera is easier when they are not limited. I'm not a pro by any means but there are visible benefits with one simple workflow change, so why not.
Even for Web, AdobeRGB is useful in some cases :
- You take a picture of objects which are highly saturated
- You are rendering a scene with measured materials which are highly saturated.

With a 100% sRGB workflow, the color will be clamped. Which sucks (flat areas)

With an AdobeRGB workflow, you convert at the very end to sRGB, using a Perceptual Intent, and you can adjust your conversion with a sRGB proofing preview. Then all the color dynamic is compressed in a much more natural way.

(I'm writing this message on an Adobe RGB Eizo)
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Eneen
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Re: [REQ] More color spaces: AdobeRGB, Rec.2020, WideGamut e

Post by Eneen » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:45 pm

@galinette:
That's right, thank you!

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