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Illustrations (Preview of my next picture)

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:49 am
by tase
This is my first post here,
Here are three illustrations done whit Blender and Indigo.
The first two(?) are finished, and the third not.




Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:58 am
by Azazeo
wow! :lol:
Nice renders! Second is the best!

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:07 am
by Borgleader
Azazeo wrote:wow! :lol:
Nice renders! Second is the best!
Agreed. Nice stuff!

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:50 pm
by CTZn
It's the first time I see toon rendering with Indigo, surprisingly it is doing well ! Are you planning to do some animations ? Stop motion style !?

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:26 am
by tase
Borgleader wrote:
Azazeo wrote:wow! :lol:
Nice renders! Second is the best!
Agreed. Nice stuff!
Thanks 8)
CTZn wrote: Are you planning to do some animations ? Stop motion style !?
No :wink: :D For a good image, Indigo takes 4 hours, that's take too much time.

A up of my bathroom :

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:41 am
by PureSpider
Awesome! Just awesome!
Are you on deviantART? I'd love to fave those :D

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:50 am
by Kram1032
Lol, amazing :D
Are those illustrations for a book? :)

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:30 pm
by Pibuz
BRILLIANT, TASE! :!: :!: :!:
Very ironic images!
With wonderful instruments like physically-based render engines, nowadays we are used to see real images of everything: i think you really found a smart use of the new technology!!!!
I really LOVE the first and the second ones!
5 stars from me!!!!

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:22 am
by OnoSendai
Very cool images. The first two images look almost like photos of carefully modelled plasticine models. Actually, if you're going for the plasticine look (not sure if you are), you could try the Oren-Nayar material.

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:19 am
by tase
PureSpider wrote: Are you on deviantART? I'd love to fave those :D
Yes, i am on DeviantArt, and it's really recent. For the moment there is only 5 pictures :oops:
The link :
Kram1032 wrote: Are those illustrations for a book?
The goal of this illustrations is to find a job as illustrator for children's book.
Pibuz wrote: BRILLIANT, TASE!
Very ironic images!
With wonderful instruments like physically-based render engines, nowadays we are used to see real images of everything: i think you really found a smart use of the new technology!!!!
I really LOVE the first and the second ones!
5 stars from me!!!!
Thank you for your comments ^^

OnoSendai wrote:Very cool images. The first two images look almost like photos of carefully modelled plasticine models. Actually, if you're going for the plasticine look (not sure if you are), you could try the Oren-Nayar material.
Good idea ! I'm gonna try.
I never really understand the difference betwen the different materials :oops: so, it's a good occasion to see what i can do

This wip in nearly over :
For info : render time : 8 hours with a quad core)

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:27 am
by tungee
very cool style! :)

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:30 pm
by Kram1032
well, there are, uh, let's count....

diffuse transmitter
oren nayar
phong (nk)
specular transparent
glossy transparent
glossy transparent SSS
3*emitters (finally can be called materials :) - though, only in shaderlanguage, I guess... so probably unblendable... :?: )
exit portal (doesn't *really* act as a material, unblendable )

*2-3 (at least) with tabulated spectrum options
~37 basic materials (not counting additional features like cauchy b) which now are highly combinable in a single shader language...

what they do (quick and dirty):

diffuse: standard non-reflecting material. Most simple of them all. Fast and effective for already many materials.... But most need something else.

diffuse transmitter: was introduced due to two things (I think):
SSS (eplained later) has one direct limitation and one for the impatient:
- It's very slow (especially with high scattering stuff)
- It's not texturable (yet)
diffuse transmitter basically is a material, that multiplies its colour to light which passes. Generally, Indigo wants volume-meshes but diffuse transmitter, besides NULL, is the only Material, REALLY allowing for flat surfaces (any non-transparent will work fine, too, but it's still better to use a volume)

oren nayar
A rather young material, in Indigo's history. It's a bit more realistic than diffuse, as it adds the option of backscattering to the render process... AFAIK (no guaranty for correctness), Diffuse shoots back rays at exactly the point they actually hit the surface, while Oren Nayar, based on an additional "roughness" treshold, scatters the rays around a bit "inside" the material, so that they can go out on a different place... - which is just perfect for clay, being a seemingly diffuse material which still scatters a lot. It's probably a solution for highly scattering materials, though both milk and candles (wax) will by far be approximated better with SSS... Clay is really the best example for when to use Oren Nayar.

the order of reflectivity might be
oren nayar
phong / phong (nk) / glossy transparent / glossy SSS
specular / specular transparent / standard SSS

phong has three factors:
colour (in rgb, usually... alternatively, as in EVERY case where you can put in "RGB", "tabulated spectrum", which might add a lot of realism to a material)
IoR (also a possible candidate for "tabulated spectrum", I think)
and exponent.
The exponent controls the amount of reflectivity, where
0 = entirely diffuse
infinite = entirely sharp (specular)
"perfect" mirrors (as specular) aren't quite realistic. You hardly ever will see a perfect mirror.
Also, many matte materials get totally white, when light hits them, so they aren't really diffuse, but "reflect" light but stray it quite a lot. That's an example for a very low exponent phong.
IoR controls more or less the strenght of a reflections. The higher Ior, the brighter reflections.

IoR = Reflection brightness
Exponent = Reflection sharpness
Colour = base mat (NOT reflection) colour

NK-phongs use special nk-data (something, called "complex IoR" with n being the actual IoR and k being an absorption value for a certain wavelenght) - nk replaces both colour and IoR by real measurement data from (mainly) metals. They more or less represent a preset tabulated spectrum, though they do NOT work for transparent materials (or better say, Indigo doesn't support transparent Phongs directly and the data can't be applied to other material types) That's, why Ono introduced tabulated spectrum...
NK is a very simple format. If you look into such a file, you can easily modify it and if you actually know what you're doing, you can even get colours you wanted. :)
Both NK data and the quite similar tabulated spectrum data seem to be rather hard to find, but Indigo already includes some very important nk-materials and some very encouraged users (CoolColJ and WytRaven) made some tabulated spectrum materials: CCJ made the tabulated Water and Wyt converted the whole collection of Schott Glasses (data from the company's own page) into usable tabulated spectrums.
Someone (who was it again? :?) also did a diamond material. Water and Diamond both can be found in the Material libary and the glass stuff most likely via forum search....
Here is a list of all the nk-materials, included in Indigo...

This actually is a huge group of materials:

first optional switch: transparent.
Here, glass first comes into the game.
If you do NOT activate transparent, specular is just like standard phong, except of three things:
1) Exponent isn't there, Specular acts as if it had an Exponent of Infinite
2) Colour now are absorption colours. Higher values actually make the material DARKER!
3) You can't use nk data.

if transparent is on, things change a bit:
Suddenly, IoR doesn't only control the reflectivity but also the refraction angle (which gets clear as soon as one understands how IoR works)

higher colour values will darken your colours and make it more absorbive. If you use RGB 1000 0 0, you actually get a very good cyan-pass-filter.

Also, you suddenly have more options:
cauchy b, which is a dispersion factor (extremely slow; the thing that causes rainbows)
glossy transparent, which suddenly adds the exponent back to the material (glossy transparent is more or less an transparent phong, but still without nk-support) Glossy Transparent is for example just what you need in case of frosted glass.
SSS (rather slow but impossible to avoid for realistic milk, wax, skin, cream, ........... The tabulated spectral water also uses SSS, although water scatters extremely weak. But that helps with stuff like under water sun rays, etc...)
All the last three options can be used at once, which probably is a worst case, especially if you activate the additional SSS option for spectrum or even henhey-greenstein spectrum, which is, just like cauchy b, a time overkill.
transparent specular in general is faster, the more absorption and slower, the less additional stuff it hast. Though, glossy transparent isn't significantly slower.

SSS vs. Glossy Transparent:
Glossy Transparent alone: Frosted Glass
SSS alone: Milk (although the reflection also might be blurry... so it could as well use glossy transparent but with rather high exponent.
SSS AND Glossy Transparent: Skin (which is very rough and pretty high scattering. The Exponent goes down to 10 in that special case!)

Yet an other SSS thingy: Skin
Skin isn't used that often. It's a two-layer model and it's a bit slow. The biggest problem is, that you need to model both layers, rather than Indigo searches the correct distance on its own. In many cases, it's actually easier (and often even faster) to use SSS than skin. Skin probably still is more accurate.

Atmosphere: If used in the way as intended, this is the BIGGEST time killer of all. It's a special material, simulating the sky. Or actually, it's two materials... This one is still too slow to lead to decent results in a reasonable time, except maybe if you run it through the ranch... It's a really great thing to play with, if you're interested in a *really* real atmosphere, with atmospheric scattering and such...

Ok... especially the specular section more than likely could be explained more precisely... So, now to the last few materials

NULL: Simply a totally invisible material. Was introduced for combination with Blend materials. NULL materials STILL have some odd behaviours... seemingly, they are far more complicated than it looks... especially with half transparent parts, I don't know how they might work exactly but for full black or white, they must be like "pass trough at hit; ray_bounce_counter++ " or "do not pass through at hit"
In many strange cases (improved a lot already), Null materials throw a shadow, although they're invisible....

Blend: Not really a material but something like the very first attempt on advanced material composition inside Indigo.
It has three thigs:
A (any Material to put in here)
B (any Material to put in here)
Blendfactor (linear: a*(x-1)+b*x; Gives, how strong a Material shows through. Can be textured as well)

Blends can also be blended, which leads to highly great variations of possible materials.
That would look like this:

Many material combinations, especially with specular, have highly undefined behaviour, but usually, it works as it should, anyway...

What I like to do, for instance, is to blend an SSS material (which can't be textured) with a diffuse transmitter (which just doesn't look real) to get textured SSS :) Works great, usually. (Still fake but less fake than other stuff, I guess...)

Exit Portal:
As said, this is NOT really a Material. What it does is, where you have an exit protal, as soon as it gets hit, light rays are proven to "find the sky" -> ray gets killed and values get calculated, based on that.
Anything around or behind an exit portal (based on it's normal direction and the relative position between cam and portal) gets cropped. If you'd only make an exit portal and a sun light inside a scene, what you'd get was a black scene with an opening, where you see the sky. That happens with BiDir on.
BiDir off somehow gives you the full sky. As you see, Exit Portals also have some undefined behaivours.

The sense of exit portals is, to use them behind windows in order to fasten up interior scenes a lot. As said, anything behind them gets invisible, except of the sky, HDR or Background light...

There are three types of emitters (excluding background lighting which definitely does NOT count as material)
The simplest are RGB emitters:
You put in a colour in RGB and a strenght and what you get is an emitter in that exact colour.

Much more realistic and still quite simple are the blackbody emitters. The directly are bound with our sense of temperature of light but inversed: red light, which to us looks pretty warm, can be produced with very low temperatures - the lowest you can get is - I',m currently testing the range... comming soon.

the last and most scientific thing is peak. I never got that one to work properly and it's quite scientific but it's great for laser stuff... If you ever need it (which I doubt), you'll have to figure it out yourself.

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:48 am
by tungee
Kram, thank you for the description of the materialsystem of Indigo!
Learned a bit more ..... :wink:

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:50 am
by CTZn
I think this block would greatly be ehanced with some highlights and bolden words, nonetheless it's impressive :shock: I think that expressed how much Kram likes your images, tase :)

Kram, we could use your talents to comment Indigo features, some sort of companion of the Indigo manual... Half kidding, half serious ;)

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:41 pm
by Kram1032
Lol, thanks^^
Ok, I'll look through all the other new posts, then, I'll go on here (my time is a bit limited today...)
(I might also reorder it a bit, later, to make it less random....)