Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

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williamhhf
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Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by williamhhf » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:51 pm

After i set up a exit portal model, i render with environment map, but is show out of the window world is just dark, but this is ok when i render just with sun & sky setting!

Please help me, i almost faint!

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CTZn
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by CTZn » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 am

Hi william, could it be that you are using an environment map with only a sky defined (pitch black ground) and that the camera is not looking up ?
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williamhhf
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by williamhhf » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:08 am

i am not really understand the term of "environment map with only a sky defined (pitch black ground) and that the camera is not looking up ?" Sorry my English is not that good, so i not really catch-up what u told me!

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CTZn
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by CTZn » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:09 am

I thought that the environment map was invisible but bringing light into the scene.

What emission settings are you using for the environement material ?
Are there other lights into the scene ?
Are you using the Reinhard tonemapping method ?

SketchUp users will perhaps tell me that I'm missing something.
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williamhhf
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by williamhhf » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:05 pm

no, the environment map does not appear and bring any light in to the rendering, i did not set any emission setting on the map, other light i just add the ceiling down light, i am using the camera tone mapping!

williamhhf
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by williamhhf » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:06 am

CTZn, here is the photo i try to show you, im not good to explain, can u help me to check is that any wrong from the setting?
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CTZn
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by CTZn » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:38 am

Change the emission scale to a bigger value.

Each time try a 10x bigger value, and the map should become visile at some point.

This is a very common issue :)
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williamhhf
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by williamhhf » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:16 pm

CTZn, even i set the emission scale to 10 trillion, still can't see the environment map!

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pixie
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by pixie » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:50 pm

williamhhf wrote:CTZn, even i set the emission scale to 10 trillion, still can't see the environment map!
I don't know how it happens in sketchup but it is usually from having the normals reversed. Turn the other lights off and use reinhard, to check if it is working or not.

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Bosseye
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by Bosseye » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:52 pm

williamhhf wrote:CTZn, here is the photo i try to show you, im not good to explain, can u help me to check is that any wrong from the setting?
This looks to me like you have the faces in sketchup pointing the wrong way, ie the normals are reversed. The 'front' face of the exit portal should be pointing into the scene. Easy way to tell which way faces are pointing in sketchup is to go into 'styles' and change the face back colour to something really bright like a mad pink or something. That way its really obvious if you have faces pointing the wrong way. The default pale blue can be misleading.

I ran through some test scenes trying to recreate your problem - the only one that looks like yours is if the face forming the exit portal is facing the wrong way. If you have the environment set to SUN & SKY then light still enters through the portal, albeit in a slightly odd way. If you then set the environment to and Environment Map like you have done, notice it renders black. I had to add a light in to show the issue.

EXIT PORTAL, Sun & Sky, normals facing wrong way
TEST - Exit portal - Sun & Sky - Normals facing wrong way.jpg
EXIT PORTAL, HDRI, normals facing wrong way
TEST - Exit portal - Normals facing wrong way.jpg
To make it clearer:

In styles I have made my back faces pink. If they're facing into the room on the exit portal this is BAD!
TEST - Bad.JPG
If all is white (or whatever colour your front faces are set to), then this is GOOD!
TEST - Good.JPG

Just for interest here are some more which show the behaviour of exit portals in different conditions:

1) NO EXIT PORTAL
TEST - No exit portal.jpg
2) EXIT PORTAL ADDED
TEST - Exit portal.jpg
3) NO EXIT PORTAL - Sun & sky setting, note the lady stood outside is visible.
TEST - No exit portal - Sun & sky, detail outside.jpg
4) NO EXIT PORTAL - HDRi setting, note the lady stood outside is visible
TEST - No exit portal - HDRi, detail outside.jpg
]

Worth noting that exit portals mean any geometry outside is not rendered and hence does not show up:

5) EXIT PORTAL ADDED - Sun & sky, note the lady is now not visible.
TEST - Exit portal - Sun & Sky, detail outside not visible.jpg
6) EXIT PORTAL ADDED - HDRi, lady is not visible. The HDRi details are seen, but no geometry outside the exit portal.
TEST - Exit portal - HDRi, detail outside not visible.jpg
Its also important to make sure you create the exit portal correctly. Easiest way to make one in Sketchup is to simply draw a line across one edge of your opening - this will fill in the opening with a face. Note that you can't just turn this face into an exit portal, this is IMPORTANT! This is what happens if you edit the active mesh before you have made it a component:

7) FACE NOT MADE COMPONENT
TEST - Exit portal - mesh not made group or component.jpg
To avoid this, ensure your face is pointing the right way, ie that you can see the front face (not the coloured back one), then press G to open the component dialogue box - make the face a component. The IMPORTANT STEP here! Make sure that you DOUBLE CLICK on the component to edit it before you right click and select 'active mesh' and then tick the 'exit portal' check box.

If you don't double click into the component before you edit the active mesh then this is what happens:

8 ) EXIT PORTAL NOT CORRECTLY SET
TEST - Exit portal - Component made, but not double clicked to edit.jpg
So yeah, triple check the orientation of your exit portal face. Hope that helps anyway :D

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Pibuz
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by Pibuz » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:40 am

Well done tutorial boss :lol:
You should put this into a pdf and post somewhere it's accessible to everyone always!

williamhhf
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by williamhhf » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:03 pm

Thx to Bosseye tutorial!

but actually i quite grasp the trick and technic to create the exit portal from the skindigo 3.2.x tutorial from youtube, ive made it exactly the way all of you tutorial, but im still having the same problem issues!

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lycium
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by lycium » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:24 am

Bosseye, that's indeed great help and I should get to putting it into a tutorial :shock: Would of course credit you :D

Cheers for your help!

williamhhf
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by williamhhf » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:47 am

helloe, can someone out there help me? no reply!

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pixie
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Re: Environment Map can't set together with exit portal?

Post by pixie » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:52 am

williamhhf wrote:helloe, can someone out there help me? no reply!
You ought to be more of some help to yourself, like sharing the scene, because if you reproduce the steps and bump into the same problem it's quite hard to know what got wrong...

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