Indigo 1.1.7

General News and accouncements regarding the Indigo render engine
BbB
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Post by BbB » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:43 pm

Ok, now things are working when blending the diffuse emitting mat with another, untextured, non-emitting diffuse mat or phong mat...

Indigo crashes when trying to merge a phong with bump or exponent map and a diffuse emitter.

Works nicely by merging a diffuse emitter and a specular.

One weird thing: When I assign the sphere emitter to layer 2, it ends up in layer 0. The other emitters in layer 1 are indeed in layer 1.
Attachments
EmitterMergedWithPhongAndOtherEmittersinDifferentLayers.png
EmitterMergedWithPhongAndOtherEmittersinDifferentLayers.png (338.97 KiB) Viewed 2702 times
EmitterandSpecular.png
EmitterandSpecular.png (361.57 KiB) Viewed 2702 times

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Borgleader
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Post by Borgleader » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:03 am

Ok now that is just WAY COOL! :) Good stuff BbB (and Ono for allowing BbB to do this :lol: )

An artist is only as great as the tool he uses? :wink:

BbB
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Post by BbB » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:17 am

Cheers man. Nothing much to see here (so far;-))

I seem to have trouble rendering textured emitters.

I tried blending a null with a textured diffuse emitter. The luminosity does not seem to be modulated by the texture but to come on top of it. Dunno if it makes any sense, but basically, when the Master Gain in the fire layer is set to 0, the texture appears fine, but as soon as I raise it, the fire fades to white - i.e. the luminosity seems to spread equally over the entire object regardless of the texture... (Master gain is set at 0.02 in the first image)

See images:

(fire map stolen from the MXM Gallery)

Hence a few questions for the master:

1) Can you confirm that emitting materials cannot be merged with materials that use exponent and/or bump maps?

2) What is the best way to have nice emitting textures - the way they used to work with textured emitters - in the new diffuse emitting material?
Attachments
MasterGain0.png
MasterGain0.png (340.84 KiB) Viewed 2678 times
MasterGainAbove0.png
MasterGainAbove0.png (283.62 KiB) Viewed 2677 times

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OnoSendai
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Post by OnoSendai » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:23 am

BbB wrote:Thanks master!

EDIT: Are NK materials back?
sure.

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OnoSendai
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Post by OnoSendai » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:25 am

Big Fan wrote:ha! you are a funny fellow ono :lol:

you might have done the UI narrowing... :wink:

ok here I am playing around with the code and I think I am going to do a hybrid adaption.
It seems like too much work to do all new coding everywhere ATM :?

It seems you can run old stuff and new stuff together - albedo_texture in the same material with base_emission for instance.?...
So for my purposes I will extend the present material code to include the new emission stuff for phong, diffuse and spec ie they will have some more options in the old panel.

Are you happy to leave backward compatibility in for a while yet ono? say for 1.2 series and possibly 1.3 too
Backwards compatibility will stay for good, probably, 'cause I don't want to waste all those materials in the MatDB :)

In general, don't mix old and new stuff together in the same material.

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OnoSendai
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Post by OnoSendai » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:26 am

Grimm wrote:@Ono - I was just looking through the manual, very cool! I have a couple of questions though. I noticed that you can make shaders for each material type, but can you mix or call different types from within another type. For instance could you define a Specular shader that calls a oren_nayar material and adds it in to the texture? If I have to use a blended material, can the shader language control the mix of the two?
No, you can't 'call' other material types from a material shader.

You can use a shader to control the blend factor of a blend material, however.
Grimm wrote:I thought of something else, any chance of defining a "global" material that will be applied to all of the mesh's regardless of the base material?
not sure why you would want to do that.

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OnoSendai
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Post by OnoSendai » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:30 am

ZomB wrote:Having the manual for breakfast now, thanks a lot Ono! :)

**EDIT**
- In the manual TIFF Support for textures is missing!
- Are 16bit PNGs still clamped down to 8bit?
- step_blend documentation is missing
I'll re-enable TIFF soon.
16-bit PNGs are currently converted to 8 bit, that will be fixed eventually.
thanks, will add in step_blend documentation.

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OnoSendai
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Post by OnoSendai » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:31 am

BbB wrote:Trying emitting materials now. My scene crashes just before warm-up. Could a kind soul have a look and check?

EDIT: I tried without the blend mat and it works. Does that mean we cannot merge emitting diffuse mats with other mats?
You should be able to merge emitting materials just fine.

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OnoSendai
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Post by OnoSendai » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:39 am

BbB wrote:Cheers man. Nothing much to see here (so far;-))

I seem to have trouble rendering textured emitters.

I tried blending a null with a textured diffuse emitter. The luminosity does not seem to be modulated by the texture but to come on top of it. Dunno if it makes any sense, but basically, when the Master Gain in the fire layer is set to 0, the texture appears fine, but as soon as I raise it, the fire fades to white - i.e. the luminosity seems to spread equally over the entire object regardless of the texture... (Master gain is set at 0.02 in the first image)

See images:

(fire map stolen from the MXM Gallery)

Hence a few questions for the master:

1) Can you confirm that emitting materials cannot be merged with materials that use exponent and/or bump maps?

2) What is the best way to have nice emitting textures - the way they used to work with textured emitters - in the new diffuse emitting material?
1) That should work fine, in theory :)

2) Set the base_emittance to a nice spectral radiance emission spectrum, like blackbody @ 2800K. Then set emittance as a texture type material parameter, and use the modulating texture for it.

As for getting a fire effect like I can see you're after, the easiest way for that would be for me to allow emission from null materials. I can't think of any killer arguments why this shouldn't be possible, so perhaps I'll add it in.

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Post by BbB » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:53 am

I'll try the solution you suggested. But remember I'm illiterate. Would you have an example xml showing proper use of textures with diffuse-emitters?

Here are two scenes with blended emitters. One where the non-emitting has bump and exponent (crashes) one without (works). Perhaps you can have a look at these when you have a minute.
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ProblemScenes.zip
(9.43 KiB) Downloaded 1515 times

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suvakas
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Post by suvakas » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:01 am

Hey Ono, can you explain the ways of "base_emission" and "emission" a bit more than in manual?
Why the "base_emission" has so high values like 2000000000 ?? and how the "emission" relates to it?

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filippo
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Post by filippo » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:43 am

as usual you have done a great job...
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Phoenix
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Post by Phoenix » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:04 am

@Ono:
Jesus, are you fast! 8)

@Fused:
Can you keep up? ;-)

BbB
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Post by BbB » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:16 am

Ono: Would it be possible to also assign the sun, environment maps and normal mesh emitters to different layers? Right now only diffuse emitters seem to accept this.

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fused
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Post by fused » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:22 am

Phoenix wrote:@Ono:
Jesus, are you fast! 8)

@Fused:
Can you keep up? ;-)
hell no... :evil:

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