Indigo Renderer 4.4.5 Beta

General News and accouncements regarding the Indigo render engine
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Zom-B
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Re: Indigo Renderer 4.4.5 Beta

Post by Zom-B » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:02 pm

Hey Neo0. as always some extra information's are needed...

Does this issue also occur on a very simple scene (cube in sky environment)?
if not, then there is a very good chance your RAM filled up, since denosing eats up a lot of it!
Also try disabling double Buffer to save some RAM too
ErichBoehm wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:13 am
Seems like Indigo isn't targeting Mac users? Doesn't seem like a good move as almost the entire creative industry (at least here in the United States) heavily relies on Mac products. I know this is (semi) free, and I think it's fantastic that this is an option to this day, but I just with this thing was a little more mac friendly.
This is more of an insult then anything else, just as Oscar explained Indigo was one of the first GPU Render Engines supported on Apple Hardware.
Also complaining that your stone age 2013 iMac has issues without any providing usable info like your scene info or RAM configuration is classic Neo0. style...
I hope the US creative industry isn't still on so old hardware like you. The 3D industry also is mostly on PC, since you can build a multi GPU machine with state of the art hardware and upgrade as you wish, something apple just recently introduced but was missing for many years...

wob
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Re: Indigo Renderer 4.4.5 Beta

Post by wob » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:28 pm

hi, strange behavior of denoiser:

i have 2 computers:

1. cpu intel celeron g3900 + nvidia gtx1060 6gb
2. cpu intel icore 7-9760 + nvidia rtx2060 6gb

denoiser works fine on machine 2 (gpu utilisation ~100%, cpu utulisation ~20%), speed of rendering is great (around x5 time longer than rendering duration without denoiser). But on machine 1: gpu utilisation - ~10-15%, cpu utilisation - 100%, speed of rendering is very very slow (around x100 longer than in no denoise mode).

is indigo using special Core i7 operators or libraries for denoising not available on Celeron g3900? which CPU should i buy for machine 2 to switch on denoiser? or denoiser uses any RTX2060 special libraries for denoising not available on GTX1060?

thanks.

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Re: Indigo Renderer 4.4.5 Beta

Post by ErichBoehm » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:01 pm

Hey Zom-B,

I hope al is well. I am a grown man and I don't do the keyboard warrior thing, but my imac has 8gb of RAM, which I think would be enough for the fairly simple work I do. The issue occurs in all kinds of scenes. No error message is given. It simply either freezes up or crashes when I tried to experiment with GPU rendering/bucket. I am not an expert, but with a GPU that has half a gig of memory, you would think that would be enough for most average scenes. A 660M is no slouch I would think.

I don't want you to take this the wrong way. Indigo is really great tool for simple scenes (actually using it to mockup some ideas for a client at the moment) and this is where it shines in my view. It's just that for serious professional (commercial work) work there are some areas where this tool is lacking. Think of the major differences between a professional Red camera and a consumer DSLR. What are some of the major differences that come to mind? Very open ended question, but one of the major ones is efficiency. A Hollywood camera will include zillions of physical controls in order to help the operator do their job in the most efficient way. When I compare Indigo to Photoshop, one of my most heavily used tools, it's that efficiency where Indigo falls short.

For example, Indigo lacks an "undo" button and many of the windows don't have a reset button. I know these things seem like nitpicks, but if I am working on an $1200 project for a client, and I accidentally bump the camera, I will want to be able to undo that mistake. Iteration is lacking, which is another critical component of commercial work. It would be really nice if you could Preview different versions of your scene with different colors. Something like this would be phenomenal (albeit obviously simplified.) One such way of doing this would be to allow the user to create tabs where you can create copies of the scene and let you adjust colors.
https://colorway.foundry.com/

Assigning materials could be vastly more efficient with a palette of thumbnails and a "drag and drop" workflow.

The texture editor is really not at the level of a commercial tool I would say either. Look at Maxwell or other big commercial renderers. Vert powerful texturing features that deliver a great blend of power and ease of use. Some sort of "click and drag" for manipulating texture positioning would be great. Changing the texture projection method will occasionally cause crashes for me as well. Sure, you have texture mapping tools in whatever 3D package you use and it is good practice to to everything there, but you will always have times where you change your mind or miss things.

I think you would be surprised. More people are working with a "stone age" set up for work than you think. I would love an Imac pro, but not everyone can afford it. It is the price many of us pay for pursuing the career and hobby we love :)

The creative industry runs on Apple products, and not every company (especially smaller ones) have the money to afford the newest Mac Pros. I will try to send along more information about the scene next time something crashes. I don't want this to come off as negative. I see so much potential here, with the great render quality. I really think Indigo can be class-leading with a more well designed UI and better stability. This is all I am saying. I want to stop here as I feel like I am rambling, so here is some more information about my system.
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Re: Indigo Renderer 4.4.5 Beta

Post by fused » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:01 am

Think about it, the system reserves a fair bit of the GPU RAM, so do other applications running on your system. 512 MB of ram is not all that much, especially not these days.

For reference on the performance you could get from that GPU, have a look at the benchmark results. On the last page of the single GPU results, you will find a few GTX(!) 660s, and scoring above(!) them a MX130 (a mobile gpu from a few years back and much newer than the 660M).

The 660M really wouldn't do much...



As far as your other points are concerned: yes, Indigo has lots of room for improvements in these areas. I took note on some of your suggestions and your feeback is very welcome.

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Re: Indigo Renderer 4.4.5 Beta

Post by wob » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:27 am

ErichBoehm wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:01 pm
Hey Zom-B,

The creative industry runs on Apple products, and not every company (especially smaller ones) have the money to afford the newest Mac Pros.
advice. sell your imac 2013. buy for this money pc like Asus Z270 motherboard (~50 euro), 2 NVIDIA P106-100 6GB Mining Edition cards (50-80 euro each piece), 32 gb ddr4 ram (~100 euro), intel core 3-5-7 cpu for socet 1151 (~100 euro) and ssd (~50 euro). you will have x10-x20 more powerful pc than you have now. indigo is fastest gpu render i ever see (x2/x3 faster than redshift, not to mention maxwell "big render") but you need a bit of real (not office-styled) hardware to run it.

ErichBoehm
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Re: Indigo Renderer 4.4.5 Beta

Post by ErichBoehm » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:46 am

fused wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:01 am
Think about it, the system reserves a fair bit of the GPU RAM, so do other applications running on your system. 512 MB of ram is not all that much, especially not these days.

For reference on the performance you could get from that GPU, have a look at the benchmark results. On the last page of the single GPU results, you will find a few GTX(!) 660s, and scoring above(!) them a MX130 (a mobile gpu from a few years back and much newer than the 660M).

The 660M really wouldn't do much...



As far as your other points are concerned: yes, Indigo has lots of room for improvements in these areas. I took note on some of your suggestions and your feedback is very welcome.
I can't imagine it's much. Windows is know for being a system resource hog, but I never got that impression with MacOS. Even if it is, when you combine the CPU and GPU, you shouldn't be getting 0 samples/second. Here are some more ideas that I think would help in professional situations. What about being able to export a PDF with the rendered version, wireframe, and other render passes in grid form for client review?

What about the ability to add noise to textures through the editor or load photoshop brushes (ex scratches) and adjust how they are blended with the image through an intuitive visual system? There are already thousands of photoshop brushes out there after all. How about the ability to load PSDS for environment maps? Integration with widely used creative tools would make it much more useful for those who do this for a living.

How about the ability to adjust HDR maps with a curve so you don't have to lose time going back into an image editing package to make changes?

What about an integrated animation editor? Something simple, where you click to create a key frame and then create another key frame and then Indigo does the rest?

Why not expand the Open GL preview and let users select objects or let people assign materials by face or object? That way, if people forgot to assign a new material to an object, they don't have to go back and spend extra time.

How about the ability to save and load camera settings, or better yet an autosave feature so if there is a power outage, you don't lose all your work?

How about social media sharing options? I know this seems like a gimmick, but we live in a social media age, and platforms like Instagram, Facebook, etc are powerful tools for promotion.

Color picker is a little dated too (imagine being able to use pantone colors, which are industry standard.) Having a guide for analogous, complementary colors would be great. Take a look at these
https://usabilitypost.com/images/0906/colorotate.jpg
https://image1-srjcooldude.netdna-ssl.c ... -tools.png

Speaking of colors, what about being able to create gradients instead of just solid colors for material properties? What about a color picker tool that let you sample color values? Say you are designing a product for a brand that is all about nature. You could samples green hues from the HDR, and be done with it in a seconds.

How about lens presets for Hollywood's favorite lenses or even classic film lenses? Classic film simulation or even light leaks?

I know this is a lot, but I hope it gives you an idea of how much exciting stuff Indigo could add that would make it the talk of the town :)

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Re: Indigo Renderer 4.4.5 Beta

Post by ErichBoehm » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:39 am

As a follow up, I have encountered a bug where the "assign material" tool doesn't work anymore. The render will restart, but when I select the material, it hasn't been changed. Indigo version 4.2.25.
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